Enfield kickstarter

[Sphere]

I'm wondering about the free throw(?) an Enfield kickstarter normally has. I have to mount mine so far forward to be able to start the engine, it is annoyingly close to the gears/neutral. I guestimate my kickstarter to have almost 90 degrees of nothingness before I finally feel pressure.

Is this normal and if not can it be helped?

[IgorVigor]

most kickstarters have some slack...

its because most work of a worm gear that when you start to move the kick start lever, it spirals a cog out to meet the clutch basket (or another cog somewhere).....

here is something to try:

start your engine and leave it in neutral
gently and slowly move the kickstart through the movement as you would if you were starting it.
at some point (when you feel the pressure when starting) you will hear it grind slightly.

now you should be able to make a small bracket to stop the kickstarter from moving forward as far (a small piece of bar from a bolt should do)
so then the pressure will be in the current place but the bracket will stop the kick start from going to full rest...
and it shouldnt move or bounce off the bar as the spring pressure will hold it against it...

I did it on a 125cc 2 stroke bike I had because the kickstart was damaged and I couldnt afford a new one...

Hope that helps...

[Sphere]

It certainly is an option, but there is a stipulation that you can have pointy stuff on the perimeter of your vehicle. Thanks for your reply.

[Diesel Dave]

That position will f*ck up the gearbox really fast......

Set it back from vertical otherwise it will chew up the alloy limiter set inside.

You don't need that much throw anyway.

DD

[Sphere]

If I don't mount it like this I don't have enough swing to start it. Remember, I'm losing a bit under a quarter of a swing before the kickstarter makes contact with whatever.

I guess that my kickstarter needs maintenance booooo.

[IgorVigor]

That position will f*ck up the gearbox really fast......

Set it back from vertical otherwise it will chew up the alloy limiter set inside.

You don't need that much throw anyway.

DD

It shouldnt matter as long as its not engaged...

all you are doing is keeping the kickstart gears a bit closer to engaging...

Unless the enfield kickstart is different to most?

[Diesel Dave]

The kick starter won't engauge that high up because the pawl is held out of the way my the limiter mechanism.

It's one of those things difficult to explain in words but easily understood when you open it up.

You should replace the pawl with any diesel build and carry a spare in the toolbox as it's easy to chip off the tip when practicing your technique in the early days.

The gearbox is really simple to strip in situ, there's no need to be worried about it - replace the ratchet springs too as these can fail.

One day I'll get around to videoing a Bullet gearbox strip and rebuild - it's really easy.

It is very different to all other's I've ever worked on - for a start there's no quadrant - it relies on a spring loaded pawl inside the mainshaft transfer gear.

[Sphere]

According to someone I should buy the below parts from Hitchcock's to mend the problem. Also, someone else says that his kickstarter engages almost immediately, and he doesn't have to swing it for almost 90 degrees first. Any other thoughts?

[Diesel Dave]

Those parts will allow you to replace the pawl, it's unlikely that the gasket will be needed but it's good to have it just in case.

If the engine is in the frame then put the bike on it's side stand overnight first to get the grease to settle on the left then you won't loose any. Top it up with engine oil if you need to.

It's likely that the little spring you see in the picture is missing or broken or the plunger is sticking in the hole and therefore your pawl is relying on gravity to put it into engaugement with the gear - hence the excess travel.

Whilst you are inside the cases check the engaugement detent plunger: (arrowed)



Some have the tip worn away because it was not hardened at the factory this leads to missed gearshifts.

Replace the 2 figure 8 springs numbered 2 and 5 in this drawing:

[Sphere]

So more like this, and the figure 8 springs as extra:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROYAL-ENFIELD-KIC ... 563e053e8e

[Diesel Dave]

You won't need the shaft or gear......

See how the inside of the gear is shaped - this is where the pawl engauges.

[Sphere]

I ordered it from Henry Price, because Hitchcock's won't accept PayPal.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kick-start-Rachet ... 53dc5bfc95

[coachgeo]

I ordered it from Henry Price, because Hitchcock's won't accept PayPal....

Why would you want to use paypal anyway? They are a monopoly and go to great lengths to kill any competition. They are rather crooked in my book. They just keep their crooked side on the opposite one of the consumer so you don't see it.

[Sphere]

I don't think this repair will help much. Keeping it short because I'm on a phone. The parts were all in good order, only the slightest chip off the rectangular thingie.

While dismantling the gearbox I broke a bolt that shouldn't have come off. The gearbox poo was worse than I imagined.

[Sphere]

Picture of pawl replacement. As you can see it hardly has any signs of wear. Replaced it anyway, but I kept the old one.

[Sphere]

Several pictures of vintage elephant sh*t. Surprisingly it didn't smell as bad as it looked but I'm going to put oil in there in a future session. I think it also contained water. Even though no oil was added after putting it back together, gear changes seemed a lot smoother.

[Diesel Dave]

Make sure the plunger and spring are working freely in the hole - if it's sticky it might be why it was not engauging properly.

You should also be able to see the base plate that keeps the pawl out of the way at rest.

Are you sure you don't want to fit a close ratio gearset?

Now would be the time.

[Sphere]

The pawl stop plate is what keeps the kickstarter pawl in place. And for much too long. I don't know why, but some people claim their kickstarter engages almost instantly. Either they have a different stop plate, or it was modified. I forgot to take a picture of the modified stop plate, but maybe it will come from a next session.

NOTE: in my case I didn't know that the bolt I was undoing was stuck in this stopplate. I ripped it clean off when dismantling the gearbox and gave Nanko an interesting time repairing it

[Sphere]

Are you sure you don't want to fit a close ratio gearset?

Now would be the time.

I don't know Dave, I haven't been passed 2nd gear 30km/h. Currently the bike is not insured nor taxed. Close gear set is a bit expensive as I recall, I will put that decision off until I take care of some other bits.

[Diesel Dave]

Ahhh most important job - get the bike on the road.

All else is secondary.

[Anorak_ian]

I'd like to bung my 2 pence worth in here if I may.

That stop you have pictured, some times it doesn't do the job it's supposed to.

As it's held in by only one bolt, sometimes it spins (moves around) letting the kickstart cam past the stop. This has happened in a few boxes that I have worked on. Evidence of this is will be damaged alloy at the back of the small main bearing housing, due to the kick start returning back too far.

Look at your kick start shaft cam for any wear, if so replace, or if on a tight budget run a line of weld down the worn part (groove). Also replace the plate, this is bound to be worn. Later Indian models had much better chunkier stops.

I may be wrong but previous experience tells me this is what to look for.

Good luck
Ian

[Sphere]

Hi Ian,

Thanks a lot for your input. Actually I was being pedantic about it and explaining to Nanko how it could rotate etc. But it turns out that the bolt in the stop plate (in my case) is not in the center of the stop plate. This makes it pretty hard to rotate. Picture a man staring at you over his spectacles and a faint smirk on his face...

I think the cam does have some wear, but that's gone now, because it was grinded as well to allow the pawl to release very early. I will take pictures of everything when I make an attempt to make the gearbox oiltight according to your recipe.