Flywheel Grinding

Engine's, injection, valve's, timing, crank's etc..

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Diesel Dave
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Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

Right this should cause a few arguements....

Here's my rig for grinding down the flywheel..

Image

Now before you all go getting bent out of shape, see the size of the fins on the barrel?

That's because this is a version built for tropical environments so hanging out in the breeze in old Blighty should cause no problems at all.

I still need to find one of the automotive type injector pumps with the retard groove so it will idle and run ok with the lightened flywheel, or grind one up!

Brum Brum
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by TedV »

wont you need to get it ballanced after you grind some off it?

as fragile to vibration these bikes and motors seem to be, or at least I've been reading about, I don't think I would risk it. Get a local machine shop to lighten and ballance it. Shouldn't cost too much, definitely less than a motor or frame.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Anorak_ian »

You may be better off getting a stainless steel job made up rather than getting your old one ballenced, save a bit of space as well. Just a thought. :)
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

I'm going to rebalance with the 400cc piston to 58%. As I will then know the weights I can remove material from the flywheel to gradually go down to 55% and find out what the best balance factor is.

The flywheel is quite a complicated shape so making up one from billet will be very expensive, it's a keyway taper fit with a void in the back for the alternator rotor.

I'm just soo tempted to leave it visible afterwards just like a Guzzi Falcone......

Dave
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by oldbmw »

Why dont you turn it in a lathe ? you will get a better finish.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

Ah, if I had access to a lathe big enough then I would use one.

In the Uk we have sold off all our manufacturing capabilities, also all the colleges and schools have disposed of their equipment due to H&S issues so no evening classes either.

It's all a bit worrying, I've yet to see a computer make anything without being attached to a machine of some sort. :wink:

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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Sphere »

Dave, won't this also have an impact on your max rpm? Do you think the engine will cope?
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

Nah!

Won't affect the max rpm unless you mess around with the govenor weights & springs.

What it should do is to allow the motor to spin up quicker and get the HP working to accelerate the bike rather than the flywheel. Also removing the fins will be removing the air pump drag

I have seen a flywheel fall off a Guzzi falcone, it kept on running and rev'd like a 2 stroke - however it was impossible to start and you couldn't pull away from rest without it stalling.

Remember that stationary diesels are designed to be used on many different applications, their hardest task is usually starting with a complete load such as when fitted to a pump, in such circumstances you need all the flywheel help you can get your hands on; so construction needs to be able to cope with all these varied applications - hence the heavy flywheel.

Lightening the flywheel will make it more difficult to start and also give the regulator a tougher job maintaining idle or any other steady rpm, as it's only the idle I need the regulator to hold as riding is under twistgrip control.

In a motorcycle application you add a lot of additional flywheel type momentum with the primary drive, the engine sprocket, primary chain and the clutch all act as additional rotating weight, this is why racers much prefer lightweight belt drives.

Somehow I just knew this would cause some controvesy, just wait 'till I add a turbo to this single cylinder motor - that should get folks talking.

All the best
Dave
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Sphere »

I only see people worried, mostly about your, shall we say imaginative contraption :twisted:
On a more serious note, I think that this actually makes for interesting reading and I'm eager to learn how it pans out.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by TedV »

as long as you have plans to get the rotating assembly ballanced, and the motor wont overheat, I have no problem with it. I needed to turn down a bolt to make a brake pushrod for my VW Scirocco when converting to manual brakes. I chucked the bolt in a standing drill press and used my small angle grinder to grind it to shape while turning. Looked great when done, and I now call it my verticle lathe. :lol:

my flywheel, clutch disk and presure plate on the Scirocco diesel I autocross weighs 15 lbs. Everyone keeps saying they've never seen a diesel rev as fast as mine does. The solid clutch disk makes it hard to take off smoothly tho. I've heard accelerating 1lb rotating equals 7 lbs static dead weight, but can't find the source to confirm on that right now.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by andrewaust »

If it works mate! Run with it.

Let us know how the balancing goes and give the barrel a good splash with black paint to held dissipate the heat.

Having them fins removed will give you a little more HP, probably not all that noticeable but in theory it should.

I feel you would know the above Dave as your a cluey bugger :), thought I'd post it for others though.

Just remember Problem = Solution :)



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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Anorak_ian »

I was planning to do this to mine some time ago, so I'm looking forward to the out come.
A diesel seller told me it would rev better (more responsive) but it would loose torque.
He also told me that it would idle at 800rpm if I kept it standard so to save fuel, but if I lightened it, it would have to be the normal 1000rpm or a bit higher tick over.

Maybe I could fit a flywheel from another Ruggerini engine in the same engine range, but slightly smaller. Hey Stuart can I borrow your flywheel? :lol:
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

Ian, that's a nice theory but.....

The singles have the heaviest flywheels.

My 1000cc triple one is lighter......

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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by oldbmw »

Diesel Dave wrote:Ah, if I had access to a lathe big enough then I would use one.

In the Uk we have sold off all our manufacturing capabilities, also all the colleges and schools have disposed of their equipment due to H&S issues so no evening classes either.

It's all a bit worrying, I've yet to see a computer make anything without being attached to a machine of some sort. :wink:

Dave
When I moved to France, I brought with me my old Holbrook lathe, when I say old, it was reconditioned just before the last war, having been constructed to 'war finish' for the previous war. I think it will take 24" in the gap bed. I have used it often to skim car cylinder heads and drums in complete motorcycle wheels... It did necessitate a crane and a bigger lorry to move here, and on the drive over the lorry was rolling like a pig.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Sphere »

If you can, please post a picture. Sounds like a magnificent piece of machinery!
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Anorak_ian »

A machinist and his machine, almost like an extra limb. Prosthetic almost.

You moved to France, how I envy you. :D
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

Well the fins are off and the surface ground:

Image

Just finished rebalancing too, 55% to start with.

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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by andrewaust »

Good stuff Dave, you didn't muck about mate, looks ok to me!

Balancing update I will eagerly await for, this will be the tricky part, but then again might be easily done.



Cheers


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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Anorak_ian »

I must confess my ignorance in ballancing this sort of thing, do you have a machine to do this?
Well done by the way, looks good.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by lex »

Hi Dave,
What engine is that?
It looks very similar to my Lombardini 7LD, certainly the flywheel is the same.
Cheers


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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Sphere »

I think he has a 6LD series 400cc.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

This is the original Greaves 360cc that I got with the bike, essentially it's a copy of the Lombardini 6LD series.

I've rebalanced for the 400cc barrel and piston that I have spare.

Not too difficult a job, just a bit of maths and drill some holes.

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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by oldbmw »

I am impressed with the inventiveness Dave.. Hope all goes well for you. I have to say I favour heavy as opposed to light flywheels because it makes for pleasanter cruising, even though it slows gear changes
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Anorak_ian »

Pleasanter how?
As you proberbly know I haven't got my diesel on the road yet, so actual riding it is still a mystery.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by TedV »

Anorak_ian wrote:Pleasanter how?
There’s an age old debate esp on single cylinder motors like the diesel in question that a heavier flywheel smooths out the power pulses since you get one bang of power every 2 revolutions. The heavier flywheel with its inertia dampens the vibrations from power pulses keeping the motor running smoothly, but it is harder to accelerate and decelerate. Light flywheel the motor will take less HP, or KW for you metric folk, to accelerate and bike will accelerate faster.

The opening up arguments Dave mentioned in his first post is this: Constant speed cruising and initial starting from a dead stop heavy flywheel is nicer. Once bike has started to move and is in accelerating and decelerating commuting traffic, lighter is nicer. But, what weight is the best all round compromise? I’d say that is what Dave is working on.
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Anorak_ian »

Thank's for the info. :)
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by Diesel Dave »

The last piece of the puzzle is that a heavy flywheel smooths out the engine pulses as it accelerates slower.

Remember that in an otto cycle motor the power is only produced for a fraction of a single stroke of the 4 stroke cycle, the rest is just freewheeling around sucking power back out of the flywheel.

In order to take the snatches out of the drivetrain there is usually a shock absorber somewhere in the system, on old Brit petrol bike singles this was on the engine sprocket, on an enfield it's in the cush drive hub - on mine it's in both the clutch centre and the cush drive hub as you can buy an aftermarket clutch with a rubber cush drive in the middle.

Interestingly this is also the reason why singles work well off road, the power comes in big lumps and the gap between the pulses allows for traction to be regained by the tyres. Ever walked up a steep incline where the ground was loose (sand dunes). If you run at it pumping your legs than you usually sink in, if you power pulse your way up one step at a time allowing your footfalls to consolidate each time then you will usually make it to the top.

That's the theory anyway.

Dave
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Re: Flywheel Grinding

Post by pietenpol2002 »

Is it acceptable to resurrect a threat after 7 years??????

It seems our friends in India have adopted Dave's free air approach to the little diesels powering their Enfields. And on an engine with head fins perpendicular to the slipstream, in a country not known for having a particularly cool climate. Following are a number of examples from the OLX Indian website where, lest you believe diesel bikes aren't on the market, you'll find 8 pages of mostly diesel Enfields for sale.

https://www.olx.in/royal-enfield/q-dies ... ption%5D=1
Re Diesel Free Air 7.jpg
RE Diesel Free Air 5.jpg
RE Diesel Free Air 2.jpg
RE Diesel Free Air 1.jpg
Ron
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