Help needed identifying Robin Diesel Engine

[brucey]

Guys,

The following Robin Diesel has come up on e bay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... TQ:GB:1123

The owner can't find a model number or plate. It looks like it's been repainted at some point so the colour doesn't provide any clues.

Can any of you tell? If it's a DY 41 or 42, it would be ideal for my Robin Enfield project.

Any help would be appreciated.

Bruce.

[gilburton]

It's very difficult to tell just by looking. I would suggest it's a DY41 due to the oil bath air cleaner as I believe the DY42 had the square plastic disposable type filter???
If you knew the actual make of the pump as a whole it might give a clue as I don't think Robin actually made a pump and just supplied the engine?
The only thing I know about the number location is that mine had a number beginning with DY 41-------- etc. stamped on the edge of the mounting foot below the starter motor. Mine also had a sticker on the cam cover where the pull start is on this one.
Pity it's so far away from you!

[gilburton]

Just an afterthought . I believe the DY35 had different dimensions for the mounting holes?? If you check out some of the pdf manuals I sent the dimensions are on there somewhere.
This would at least rule out it's not a DY35. The DY41/42 are identical.Not sure if the DY35 ever had an electric start??
Maybe Tony Dymott could help as he has bought an engine he thought was a DY42 but the mounting holes were different to the ones on his bike.
tonydymott@hotmail.com

[gilburton]

Here's the sticker I mentioned on the cam cover. Probably the pull starter is covering it??

[brucey]

Thanks gilburton.

I may ask the seller to send me a couple more photos.
I just wonder if they would use an 8 to 10 hp engine to drive a jet wash.
I suppose I could always use it as a jetwash

[brucey]

O.k, since I put the question on here 2 people have bid on it. I hope I haven't shot myself in the foot!

[brucey]

O.k. I've e mailed the seller and told him where to look for the I.D label. I think it may be too big a risk to bid £500 + on something I'm not sure is what I want. And I don't need a diesel jetwash just at the minute!

Thanks for your help. I'll keep my fingers crossed to see if he replies.

brucey

[brucey]

The guy got back to me and has e mailed the following:

"Dy415 10441615 these numbers are on it thanks Tom !"

Does that mean it's a DY41 S ?

Sounds promising

How much do you think it's worth?

brucey

[gilburton]

Not sure about that but the number after the DY41 usually means some sort of minor variant eg shaft,electric start etc etc.
Not sure what the 5 is(assuming it has not been misread) but don't worry these engines are all similar in the important stuff and parts are interchangeable.
The main thing is it's an electric start DY41 in working order with the bonus of a pull start and you will also have a kickstart as well lol.
All industrial engines conform to SAE standards which means mountings/shafts are common fittings in the industry so you can usually get or adapt something to fit.
Difficult to say about value as you are buying a complete pressure wash to get the engine but I presume you'll get app £100+ for the pump itself which,of course,could be retrofitted with any yanmar type chinese clone to get it working again??
As you probably already now know how rare and also the cost of these engines and you already have most of the smaller parts to make up a bike you should have a good idea of total cost to build one?
I believe the original Enfield Robin Diesel was around £4k which was a lot of money in those days!! Henry Price is currently building them today for around that cost but obviously using a cheaper Chinese Yanmar clone engine.
It's not ideal buying an engine this way but as you are intent on a Robin engine to keep it original anything that comes at a cost suitable to you is worth going for

[gilburton]

Hold on a minute!! I now believe this engine may be a DY41B It's difficult to see on the pics but the DY41B is the model with a gear reduction built in to the flywheel cover.
If you look at the pic in the ad where you can see the "join" between the engine/pump there is a casting on the flywheel cover housing the gears!!
Also the drive to the pump seems not to be in line with the crank??
I don't know but I assume the flywheel cover could be removed and a standard one bolted in its place??
I don't have any experience of that version so i don't really know what would be required to convert
I've looked at the pdf service manual I sent you and it would appear the flywheel cover just unbolts complete with the reduction gearbox so then all you would need would be the standard flywheel cover??
Have a look at section 10 of the service manual.
The seller might be mistaking the B for a 5??
Pic of standard cover. Compare with section 10 of service manual.
https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/down ... ew&id=1829

[brucey]

Thanks once again gilburton. It's a sign of a good site when someone puts themselves out to help a complete stranger with a common interest.

I think I pretty much came to the same conclusion as you about the 'S' being a 'B' and having 1/2 the output speed. This looks like a reduction box bolted to the output shaft.

I'm going to bid anyway. The worst that can happen is I get to clean my block paving with an industrial jet wash!

Robin engines are a bit like busses. I think I've found another one in Southampton!

I e mailed the National Motorcycle Museum today to see if I can find out what happened to Ernie Dorsett's Yellow Peril. I would like to rebuild it if at all possible as I guess I have most of the parts.

Thanks again, I'll let you know what happens

brucey

[Stuart]

Pretty sure Ernie's bike was totally destroyed in the fire they had back then.

[brucey]

O.k. I seem to be the proud owner of a Robin Diesel electric start jet wash:-)

Hope to pick it up next week. That should keep me busy over Christmas!

Now I've got to find a suitable Enfield Doner Bike but that should be easier than getting the engine.

Many thanks for your help. Let the adventure begin!

brucey

[gilburton]

Great stuff. All you need now is an engine in bits or any condition just for spares

[brucey]

I'm talking to another guy who was selling a diesel disc cutter. I think it has a DY41 engine in it (I'm waiting for more information). He turned out to be a diesel bike enthusiast! When I told him my plans, he basically said I could have the engine

I'm not sure what it is yet but if it is a Robin, I will be well chuffed! Now I've just got to find somewhere to put all this stuff!

[gilburton]

Well even if it's a DY30/35 the flywheel cover and the drive shaft will fit the DY41B so,hopefully,that will give you a 1" drive shaft for the primary drive sprocket

[gilburton]

Just seen the disc cutter on ebay. Looks promising and definately a DY of some sort but not electric start.

[brucey]

Gilburton,

Do you know if it is possible to fit a starter motor and ring to a pull start Robin to convert it into electric start?
Looking at the parts list, I can't work out if the crank cases are different.
I know it won't be cheap but it gives me more options sourcing a Robin engine.
The guy is selling it for a friend but seems really nice. I think I've re wetted his appetite to build a diesel bike!
The engine looks to be in pretty good condition. I'm not sure what the output speed is yet.
brucey

[gilburton]

Well if you look at the flywheel in the parts list the ring gear bolts to 4 threaded castings in the flywheel cooling fins.
I suspect the casting will be there as the flywheel part number is the same.
Whether these castings will be drilled I don't know but that could easily be sorted. I suspect you will still have to source the starter ring which might be a problem!!
Of course if you have the facilities or finance I've no doubt you could get some copies made? It's a bit like a bike sprocket.
The parts list has 2 different numbers for electric start/manual start but I suspect that the only difference is the machining??
If you look at the pic of the floor cutter just to the right of the fuel filter/tap the starter casting "bulge" is there.
On the electric start models the filter is moved higher up out of the way.
As long as it's a DY41/2 ( I have my doubts about this one but if the number is there??)and it's cheap enough I would grab it even if you don't use it the spares will be useful and might supply a standard flywheel cover/drive shaft for the other engine and it will answer some of your questions.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-concre ... 3a8753c4e6
Here are the various dimensions but just as a matter of interest,and I don't want to get your hopes up,this engine has a "dry" air filter. These were only fitted to the smaller engines AND the DY42 as this link will show you
http://www.midlandpower.co.uk/download/ ... ochure.pdf
Don't get too excited if he comes back and tells you it's a DY 42 as he might put the price up? lol

[brucey]

Thanks once again Gilburton, that sounds promising.

I have a small lathe and mill so can carry out various machining tasks (I probably owe you a few favours!).
The Disc Cutter is a DY42 but I'm waiting to find out if it's a 'D' or a 'B' (Look at me becoming a Robin expert!)
If I'm lucky enough to get both engines, I should be able to make at least 1 really good one. I now see why Price Parts went the Yanmar Clone Route. They are far easier to buy and repair!

No reply from the National Motorcycle Museum yet but a guy on the Enfield forum has sent me a good photo he took of the Yellow Peril before it was destroyed. Apart from the Enfield Bullet bike and a Robin engine, I think I have all the bits in my shed!

brucey

[gilburton]

That's how I found out about Robin engines,just pure research/experience.
As long as you get one engine so you can get on with the conversion. The minor details can be sorted out as hopefully you will come across other engines so don't stop looking.
Yes the clones are certainly cheap and easy to get for way way less than the cost of a Robin.
Never mind you'll have all these extra industrial machine parts to sell as well as an Enfield engine

[brucey]

o.k, just got back from Southampton with a Robin DY42 in the boot

Thanks Joe for all your help. Your a star mate!

Having never handled a diesel engine before I was surprised how heavy it was! We got it home, Put it on the bench and decided to see if it would start. With me in charge of hanging onto the engine and controlling the throttle, my Son pulled the starter. After several pops and pulls, to my amazement it started! (probably the first time in quite a few years) I hadn't actually planned for this eventuality as a petrol engine would need quit a lot of stripping and cleaning. I now had a 10hp engine running at 3000rpm trying to escape from my shed! switching it off just made it jump higher until it came to a rest. With my Son and I grinning like kids, we decided to do it again! Blimey, I can't wait to get it bolted in a bike frame!

Output shaft is in line with the crank which is good. I pick up my DY41 electric start jet wash Saturday. Can't wait!
I've attached a couple of photos'

[gilburton]

I see you've now got the correct drive shaft. I expect it will be 1" ?
I don't think the flywheel cover is a Robin one so I think you will still have to source a genuine one so that the enfield chaincase can bolt to it(I think)
If you want to start it again screw it to some planks or a pallet etc.
Before you do that remove the diamond shape plate below the starter and you drain the oil from there. Lean the engine over to drain it all.
On the back of the plate is a fixed filter.
These engines are well constructed and they use O rings/seals a lot.
I washed mine out but that is how they come complete with plate.It pushes back on to a hollow spigot so you may have to gently twist it to get it off?
Fill it with any motor oil just to flush it out and check the fuel filter bowl.
After all it has been standing and they all seem to be neglected a bit when it comes to routine maintenance.
Most of the weight is the flywheel. Don't drop it when you remove it
You just need to see if the electric starter will swap over but fingers crossed
You could use the jet wash to clean this one?

[gilburton]

Have you got the other one yet??

[brucey]

DY35

DY35

DY35

I'm now the owner of a DY42D, a DY41B (with electric start) and as from today, the DY35 shown in the photos.

The DY35 says it's a 'D' (3600 RPM) on the name plate even though it appears to have a reduction box. I'm guessing it's got a shorter stroke. My intention was to replace the DY41 engine in the jet wash with the DY35 and sell it on. I have yet to start it, but it has been well looked after and only done minimal work. I guess I can measure the output shaft speed of them all to see what my options are.

I'm about ready to start looking for an Enfield Bullet but need to clear a bit of space (by selling the jet wash) and stop buying Robin engines! If the worst comes to the worst, I'll see what I can get for the jet wash without an engine.

[coachgeo]

.....I'm about ready to start looking for an Enfield ...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2761

[gilburton]

Well done! At least you can now compare some of the differences
Have you investigated the flywheel cover situation and removed the reduction gear just to see what's what??
The standard cover has lots of SAE drilled/tapped holes to which(I believe) the Enfield chaincase bolts either directly or by the use of a spacer/adapter??

[brucey]

Coachgeo,

Thanks for the heads up. I had already contacted the guy, but he want's to sell it complete if possible and I don't think I'm going to get another diesel engine past my wife!

However, if he wants to swap a jet wash (minus engine) for an Enfield (minus engine), we might have something

I actually used my diesel jet wash to test the electric start Robin DY41 engine. Blimey, I pulled the trigger and shot back 3ft! It does a really good job on patio's. I turned it down a bit to do the car though

brucey

[brucey]

Can anyone tell me the type of engine oil and quantity I use for a Robin DY diesel engine? Is it the same semi synthetic diesel you buy in Halfruads for cars?

Looking at the black sludge on the dip sticks I think it would be prudent to change the oil before running the DY 42 and DY 35 engines for any length of time.

Should I run them on flushing oil for a while?

The DY35 doesn't have a fuel tank (I got several with the Ronin Enfield bits), or a fuel filter. Can I just connect the tank directly to the pump to test the engine? Failing that I'll 'borrow the filter from one of the other engines.

Does the fuel system require bleeding on these engines?

[gilburton]

It's all in the owners manual.I did send you the owners manual pdf did you get it?? I believe the Dy35 is the same as are the tanks.
As you won't be using the tank on the bike conversion you might as well swap it all over. The filter is also the fuel tap so you'll need to fit that to the jet wash anyway??
NEVER RUN IT WITHOUT A FILTER!!! You can always use a plastic in-line filter if you don't want to swap over the existing filters.
Drain the old oil out then I would just use any oil you have hanging around to flush it out then SAE 30 as stated in the manual.
The bleed points are illustrated as well.
The main bleed point is where the fuel feed enters the pump.
On the union you crack open the top nut while holding the other, which needs to be kept tight as that one holds the banjo union, until fuel comes through by gravity then tighten.
If you don't see any fuel sometimes you have to blow in to the fuel tank to pressurize it to encourage the fuel to go through the filter.
Then while turning the engine over slowly, with the throttle fully open, crack open the injector nut until you see the fuel air free then tighten up.