Kawi-Daihatsu & Suzi 6 speed

[XLerate]

Hi gents!

Slowly working towards a diesel build. Have a '96 Kawasaki KZ1000P-15, a 'cop bike', same as on TV program CHIPS. Plan to use Daihatsu 3 cylinder turbo, sold by Briggs & Stratton in the USA. Have a '79 Suzuki GS550-E engine that will give of itself, to become my 6 speed gearbox & clutch, plus auxiliary starter.

Already tore the Suzi down & was planning to get the crank pressed apart then reassembled without rods & pistons. Drive the 'gearbox' through a sprocket where alternator/stator's rotor used to be on end of crankshaft. Then a 'thought bubbles' floated thru, 'Hey, wait a minute here...!?!'

Now thinking to press crank apart, take bearings & drive gear off crankshaft, mount those on a plain steel shaft instead of original crank? $aves the trouble & expense of having stuff pressed apart, crank reassembled, trued & balanced by a $pecialty Machine $hop, maybe stronger too. I have a good drill press, no lathe etc. A skilled 'home machinist' lives close by who can help for a reasonable price. Seem like it might work? I've got an old torsion bar off a car that may provide the shaft, otherwise just mild steel shaft?

Not sure how complicated all this would be, but several of you guys are highly skilled in that direction. Should I farm out the fitment of pieces to the machinist neighbor or a shop? If not & try to do it here I wonder what a good press fit tolerance would be for mounting bearings to shaft? I think the crankshaft's gear that drives tranny would have to be pressed on, then spot welded.

Any suggestions appreciated, thanks!

XLerate

[realnutter]

Hi XLerate!

Welcome aboard!

You're following the exact same path as me! I'm using the bottom end of a H-D MT350 as my "gearbox".... and yes, I'm having a straight shaft made up to replace the crank... I've been told I need EN36 steel....

Does the GS550E have roller/ball main bearings?? If so, then 1thou over is what I was told for bearing fit....

The nice thing about the Rotax motor is that the primary gear is keyed onto the crank, so no push fit or welding required!

Keep us posted as to progress!

Matt

[XLerate]

Hi there!

Thanks for info, that helps. Just head scratching this AM & decided about the same, minimal press fit should be good. Whole thing is immeresed in oil so even if a bearing wanted to spin [doubtful] on a shaft, no big deal. Suzi GS550 6 speed box is STOUT! Surprised to see 6, yes six roller bearings on the crank! Crank measures 25mm / .981" diameter at rotor end, don't know bearing I.D. until it's pressed apart.


EN36 looks to be an alloy with nickel & chromium added: http://www.westyorkssteel.com/EN36.html
No doubt some tough stuff. Only problem may be the case hardening as I'll likely weld the drive sprocket on end. May have to try to find something not requiring the tempering, or different mounting for sprocket.

Once built it's a sealed unit of course, so I can fill with oil & mount at any needed angle to save space. I already plan on one jackshaft because of trike configuration. If needed another shorty to hook engine & gear box no problem. Plus in a trike configuration I already plan to stretch frame, so plenty of room any way I go.

Still have to source engine & torn between picking up used for cheap [but questionable] or biting the bullet & buy a new one. Real challenge on my income but new would probably last a lifetime, or what's left of it hah!

Thanks! I'll look up your build...
XL

[coachgeo]

Hi there!

Thanks for info, that helps. Just head scratching this AM & decided about the same, minimal press fit should be good....Still have to source engine & torn between picking up used for cheap [but questionable] or biting the bullet & buy a new one. Real challenge on my income but new would probably last a lifetime, or what's left of it hah!

Thanks! I'll look up your build...
XL

Andddddd..... how's the build going?

[XLerate]

Andddddd..... how's the build going?

Ha, what comes after slow-w-w-w-w?

Non-existent cashflow is a limiting factor as usual. Plus I don't have a garage to work in, all has to be done outside. That never stopped me before!

I hooked up with a neighbor who has a small machine shop at home & he's going to help with the tranny mods, of changing it from an engine to a trans. Another neighbor offered that he has some industrial type Porta Power tools, to press the stock crank apart. That's a huge help!

After apart I have a 1.250" sold steel shaft to take the place of the crank. This gets turned down to fit roller bearing's ID, with steel tubing pieces between bearings to keep them located in place of connectng rods.

One possible problem is that crankshaft has a gear on it to drive tranny, right square in the middle of crank! Unknown yet what it will take to get that installed on this new shaft. If it's splined, which it probably is, then shaft must be splined to match, at least from one end of shaft to center. Hopefully it won't be too nuts doing that.

Selling a truck some time in February & hopefully that will coincide with finding a good engine. From there the weather will soon turn so I can get busy on frame mods outdoors.

Thanks for asking & overall it's still a sit & wait project for at least a couple of weeks....

[XLerate]

Hi guys!

Well, just a little catch up, Sunday morning blab here. Not much going on here since the first post a year ago. Already had some health issues that cause my 'Disabled' condition, then caught a weird virus and infection over a year ago! Also, unknown to me, my water well was badly contaminated, really ugly, just found out. For over a year I've been beat down, just not up to getting out there and rockin' & rollin'! Cleaned up the well and tank now, taking yet another run of anti-biotics and hopefully this round will do it and BACK TO WORK! [on projects, can't work a job anymore]

So I've had lots of time to think and sketch plans and research, and THANKS to the many here that contributed to the last part! Anyways, I didn't change horses but I'm swapping saddles so to speak.

My trike design needs to be patented which exceeds my income right now. Some hope of that in the semi-near future. The design is unique and I believe far beyond anything ever built or offered before, so I can't build and display in public without patent protection, such as it is. What to do? Gotta have a three wheeler because of injuries but can't build my own blasted design yet! I'm just HACKED here!!

Hey, wait a minute....

Yep, I've now decided to convert my sweet '96 KZ1000P-15 'Cop bike' into a sidehack! Want to build it up as a distance cruiser, cargo carrier, not passenger rig. Sketching out plans & researching, but looking at a simple tube frame using the swingarm off the Suzuki GS550 mentioned above, which also lets me mount the 18" alloy Suzi wheel, complete with disc brake & sprocket. Run a u-jointed driven shaft across and have the option of 2WD on rear, selectable 1WD or 2WD.

This also gives me the option to easily pull a light trailer behind, maybe a little pop-up & fold out tent sleeper rig with cooking, small sink, maybe a porta-potty, you know.

Regardless I'll need quite a bit of diesel to haul all this. Not convinced on using the Suzi 6 speed trans, still an option, but I see that Harley 5 spd boxes aren't that expensive, like $500-$600 or so. I'll need at least 45-50 hp, plus diesel torque, to be able to cruise interstates with such a load. Thought to use the Kubota 3 or 4 cylinder but read some about crank failures. So it's still open on what the right engine is? 3-4 cylinder transverse is the plan.

When doing the metal work for sidecar I can just as well stretch the frame for any engine/trans combo, no problem there. May build with the stock gasser engine first, register it, learn to drive it, then shove in a diesel later. But I'd have to be sure of exactly what diesel and trans I'll be using in future to get it right.

So that's the current status. Hoping to get back on it again before winter hits, praying for better health to allow that and I ain't giving up! Got WORK TO DO!

.

[gearhead1951]

If you have the complete engine/drive train package from a fwd car you could trike it in a different way by separating the trans from the engine complete with the fly wheel , as you create the frame build a plate to bolt the trans to that incorporates a shaft and bearing the carry the fly wheel and clutch on the one side and a sprocket on the other !

Set the engine in place across the frame . with the engine directly in front of the trans and placed as far forward as you wish you then need a jackshaft to connect the engine to the trans !

To clarify , the trans is moved fron the end of the crank to a new position behind the engine with the fly wheel and clutch attached and the fly wheel end now on the timing side of the engine !

Chain drive from the crank to a jack shaft and also form the jack shaft to the trans input shaft !

You can separate the engine and transaxle as far as you wish and use the original irs if you choose but you WILL have to adjust the length of the half shafts (really not that difficult)

If any one has questions I will happily reply !

Bob (Gearhead) King( Ignorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal )!gearhead1951
Builder

[XLerate]

Thanks for the tips and info Gearhead!

I have a front wheel drive donor car that I was going to build out, as a 2F/1R layout, a trike of sorts. Very complicated and even moreso when thinking of splitting engine from trans. Car is an '85 Dodge Omni 2.2L with a turbo. I figured if I got the weight down with a tube chassis I might see 75 mpg and gobs of power. These early Omnis also came with a VW diesel, so I planned to swap one in later and maybe see 100+ mpg. Still a future possibility I guess.

The plan on this one is a 3-4 cylinder inline, transverse with trans behind engine in frame, chain driven. May require some jackshafts and such. It would be a whole lot easier than the other build, which is what got me into building this KZ1000P-15 instead.

[gearhead1951]

I think what your talking about is what the brits call a reversing tricycle , if so then moving the trans to be in front of the engine via the jackshaft method is just as viable . You will find routing the steering shafts a little challenging but not impossible !

This layout has some real benifits , Engine weight behind axle centerline , more room for the radiator(over the trans) and you can use the doner cars front suspension and steering !

[coachgeo]

Firstly Xlerate, Glad to hear your health is improving and your expecting it to contiue to do so for a bit more. That is the biggerst good news.

As to crank failures...... think that discussion has mostly been about Diahatsu in the past..... seems to have not heard of that in a while now though. Also of china clones of Yanmars. Dont recall discussion of there an issue wiwth Kubota's.

[XLerate]

I think what your talking about is what the brits call a reversing tricycle , if so then moving the trans to be in front of the engine via the jackshaft method is just as viable . You will find routing the steering shafts a little challenging but not impossible !

This layout has some real benifits , Engine weight behind axle centerline , more room for the radiator(over the trans) and you can use the doner cars front suspension and steering !

Yes, they're called reverse trikes here too. For all-out performance, stability, comfort, safety and handling we can't really beat the reverse trike design. Morgan [LOVE THEM!] was certainly a game changer. I was convinced in that direction but the build is far, far more complicated, and intricate. I still have all my completed reverse trike designs drawn up plus a donor vehicle & lots of parts and have only set it aside, not abandoned it! Oh, and $$$$$ for that build is way different!

For now, under the circumstances, a better first step to get me back in the game with my knees in the breeze is this more traditional sidecar build. Quicker and easier to build, cheaper, lots of fun and something I can get going on right away.

Thanks for the tips!!

[XLerate]

Firstly Xlerate, Glad to hear your health is improving and your expecting it to contiue to do so for a bit more. That is the biggerst good news.

As to crank failures...... think that discussion has mostly been about Diahatsu in the past..... seems to have not heard of that in a while now though. Also of china clones of Yanmars. Dont recall discussion of there an issue wiwth Kubota's.

Thanks, buddy, really appreciate that!

Yes, I had/have confusion on the cranks, on which was which. At times it sounds like the Kubota engine actually IS the Daihatsu by another name, may just be one model though. Really would like to use a Kubota if they're good because they're so plentiful in greens/turf mowers, garden tractors etc. with a ready supply. Now, if the prices would just come down!

Spent a lot of time at Orange Tractor forum and not a lot of crank failures seen there, only a very few.

Plan is to put max effort into the basic bike layout and everything attached to the engine & bike-frame and sidecar layout. If the first engine is old and worn that's fine for testing and learning, it's just gotta run, that's all. After that I can throw a full kit in the engine during a winter and then have a great long term, long distance rig.

Thanks!

[gearhead1951]

The trike layout I spoke of first can also be configured so that one rear wheel runs in the track of the front wheel and the other rear wheel is offset out far enough to allow a side car body to fit .

Doing it this way gives you power to both rear wheels and a reverse gear that can be kind of difficult to create for a conventional bike based combo , plus with the trans located back between the wheels you have a much better balanced machine !!

[gearhead1951]

Also maybe you would like to check out www.blackjackzero.com for a quite cheap and very neat little gasoline engined reversing trike !!

[XLerate]

Well 'cheap' is a relative term. Right now I'd need cash gifts to get up to the broke mark.

But thanks, Gearhead, interesting! Some updated modern versions of the beautiful Morgan 3 wheelers there. Always been a nut for Morgans. That's a very similar layout to what I had in mind using parts of my '85 Dodge Omni as basis for a trike, using an open tube chassis for 2 front - 1 rear layout. Plan was to pull the 2.2 gasser and run a VW turbo diesel in its place. Unfortunately I'd need almost the whole VW front end and more to do it. Omni 5 speed gear box, clutch and drivetrain just isn't up to the diesel torque from what I've heard.

Thanks for the contribution, some day I may yet build out that Omni into something cool like those shown at the link. Sent you a PM about that.