I'm Benzine from Leicestershire, UK

[Benzine]

Benzine, dutch for petrol. Not the best name on a derv bike site but it's been my nickname since school I've tinkered with cars since early teens and I've built a kit car. I have a 1972 bedford TK which got me into liking diesels

I love the idea of using a small diesel engine on a vehicle. I don't have a bike license and don't want to splash out £££ to go through the training and test, what i'd like to build is a scratch built (including making the chassis etc) diesel 3 wheeler. I aim for it to be very lightweight, aerodynamic (fully enclosed bodywork, i.e. would include a bubble screen or whatever those types of screens are called that look like screens on fighter jets), low resistance tyres, look into gear ratios etc etc. I've done a lot of fibreglassing so would make the bodywork out of that. Am I welcome? It wouldn't be a bike but it would be mostly bike based

Seeing this site and forum, and http://www.velomobiel.nl/allert/Recumbe ... orbike.htm got me interested in making a 3 wheeler/trike. As he says on velomobiel.nl, side winds make it harder to ride, plus I don't have a bike license... a sleek, low to the ground trike wouldn't have the stability issues. The Malone Skunk would give a rough idea of what it'd be like, but mine would have fully enclosed wheels, fully enclosed cab, and be a single seater and smaller.

Cheers
Ben

Edit: obviously I'd need to get it msva'd for it to be road legal. I'm wondering, if i used a generator engine, would it need proof of engine age & emissions like for IVA? And would it be provable, are there some generator motors who have manufacturers that would provide this info in writing?

[IgorVigor]

Firstly, welcome.

Secondly, I dont know, but I thought there was a minimum weight when you ride a trike on a car license?

Thirdly, a generator engined trike is going to be VERY slow...
25~30hp isnt a lot for a trike...
Do you want a trike with similar performance to an Aixam?

I would personally think a small car diesel would be better...
Something like the Daihatsu 1.0l 3 cylinder diesel, or the Peugeot 106 1.5D (60hp)

You could keep the weight down by using fibreglass as you said.

A reverse trike might be a good option...

That way, you could use the front end of a donor car for the engine, gearbox, suspension, steering, etc...

No matter what you do, keep us posted
Always interesting to see new builds...

[Crazymanneil]

As far as msva goes its pretty straightforward (or at least it was about 2 years ago when I bought the manual). Basically it has to not smoke out other drivers (booo ). Age related stuff is more for the vehicle registration than sva as far as I gather (age related plate) so you probably end up with a Q plate. I'm sure others will be along shortly who know the 'real world' ins and outs.

And welcome

N

[Benzine]

Thanks for the welcomes!

Firstly, welcome.

Secondly, I dont know, but I thought there was a minimum weight when you ride a trike on a car license?

Thirdly, a generator engined trike is going to be VERY slow...
25~30hp isnt a lot for a trike...
Do you want a trike with similar performance to an Aixam?

I would personally think a small car diesel would be better...
Something like the Daihatsu 1.0l 3 cylinder diesel, or the Peugeot 106 1.5D (60hp)

You could keep the weight down by using fibreglass as you said.

A reverse trike might be a good option...

That way, you could use the front end of a donor car for the engine, gearbox, suspension, steering, etc...

No matter what you do, keep us posted
Always interesting to see new builds...

Hi, are you thinking of something like this?:



That would be heavy, I'm talking about a very lightweight single seater, not a trike as such, just something that happens to have 3 wheels, in every possible area i'd be reducing weight. I'm not looking for performance, I'm after good fuel economy, the difference in a bike with and without a fully enclosed body (as in that link i posted) is huge, and that was with a petrol engine. It'd be interesting to do something similar with a diesel. If it can do 55mph that'd do fine. Yes a reverse configuration is what I had in mind, like the Malone Skunk i mentioned.

Good point about the minimum weight, from a quick google search it looks like less that 410kg is classed as a motorcycle, I'd be aiming for much, much less than that so I'd need a bike license. I still want to build it though might have to get my bike license sometime over the next year

[IgorVigor]

A reverse trike would make more sense in some respect

I didnt get a chance to search the Malone Skunk before, but thats the sort of thing I meant...

I still think a small car diesel would be a better option...

The Aixam 500 uses a Kubota diesel with a CVT transmission, and struggles to get to 55mph...
And averages 70mpg...

Where as the small Peugeot 106 1.5D will average almost that if you drive gently...but with twice the power, and a top speed of around 100mph.
So the potential it would have in a small trike, would be brilliant...

Personally I always liked the look of the Lomax kit car, based around a Citroen 2CV:
http://www.alioth.net/flying/flying/trips/iom/lomax.jpg

Front engined, front wheel drive.
It basically used the engine, gearbox, steering, suspension etc from the 2CV in a much nicer looking design :p

You saying that you have a good amount of fibreglassing experience, you could probably make something similar

I seem to remember that the Lomax comes in at around 450kg (~1000lbs)...
With a single seat, and some attention to detail, I reckon with a Peugeot 1.5D you could get a figure very similar....

Good luck

EDIT:
As for the bike test, if you decide to do it, try and afford to do the DAS (Direct Access)...
Then as soon as you pass your test, you arent restricted to 33hp motorbikes (though I dont know if there is a hp restriction with a trike :S)

[albertaphil]

Hey Benzine, there is a member of this forum going by the name Roo who has built pretty much exactly what you're describing. He calls it the RooPod and he powers it with a liquid cooled kubota. Aluminum frame and all. Do a forum search here and he also has a website. Look up www.roopod.com.

There are lighter engine options than a liquid cooled anything...the lombardini and ruggerini twins make 19hp at less than 60kg. Roo is using a CVT.


Phil

[Benzine]

The Aixam 500 uses a Kubota diesel with a CVT transmission, and struggles to get to 55mph...
And averages 70mpg...

I've looked at the aixam and it's quite a heavy beast for what it is. I'd be building a space frame chassis and reducing weight in many areas: wheels (both number of and lighter, thinner wheels), the aixam has lots of heavy glass, i wouldn't have a heater, radio, interior carpets, dashboard, interior panels or anything that goes towards comfort, one fibreglass seat instead of two heavy comfy seats, fibreglass bodywork (I don't know whether the aixam is steel or fibreglass bodywork), aluminium fuel tank etc

As for the bike test, if you decide to do it, try and afford to do the DAS (Direct Access)...
Then as soon as you pass your test, you arent restricted to 33hp motorbikes (though I dont know if there is a hp restriction with a trike :S)

Cool, i'll look into that, thanks for the info

Hey Benzine, there is a member of this forum going by the name Roo who has built pretty much exactly what you're describing. He calls it the RooPod and he powers it with a liquid cooled kubota. Aluminum frame and all. Do a forum search here and he also has a website. Look up http://www.roopod.com.

There are lighter engine options than a liquid cooled anything...the lombardini and ruggerini twins make 19hp at less than 60kg. Roo is using a CVT.

Phil

Thanks for the link, looks interesting! Yeah that's in the same ballpark, I'll be sticking to a steel chassis though ^_^ I need to look at all the available engines, not sure what the options are at the moment...

[Stuart]

Welcome to the forum Benzine Of course Diesel Trikes are welcome but be prepared, we may soon bring all posts on these together into their own room to help those interested in building them.

Stuart

[buckles]

Hi benzine and welcome, the weight classes on trikes relate to the licence you hold, you can ride a trike on a bike licence up to 450 kg's ish, but over this weight you will need a car licence. I think this is to stop people building car based trikes that only hold a bike licence, as far a i can see if you hold a car licence it does not matter if its lighter than the 450 kg's. Have a look on the MAG site there should be a link to trike law, then you can get stuck into your build. Good luck, Andy.

[sbrumby]

A quadracycle has to be under 400kg and maximum power of 15kw.

[buckles]

A quadracycle has to be under 400kg and maximum power of 15kw.

Hi Sam, is that the class the Axiam falls into, same as the old blue invalid carriages that you don't need a licence to drive?

[sbrumby]

An Axiam is within this class, havent a clue about the invacar.I think the invacar was way before this taxation class came in. Quadracycles can be driven on a motorbike licence.

[IgorVigor]

Quadricycles cant be driven on a motorcycle license....

You need the category B1 on your license...

I know, because I looked into getting a quad, but I only have a bike license (A), so I cant ride a quad :S

[sbrumby]

I think it all depends when you passed your test I think jan 2001. But I could be wrong.

[Benzine]

Thanks for the info. I passed sept 2001. I have B, B1, C, C1 but I guess i'd still need my bike license

[oldbmw]

I just wonder if you could find an Isetta three wheeler if this would be an easy way to get a three wheeler ???

[Benzine]

Thanks for the info. I passed sept 2001. I have B, B1, C, C1 but I guess i'd still need my bike license

Rather old bump, found this on direct.gov website so it looks like I can drive a lightweight trike without a bike license, unless I'm missing something?

[Sphere]

I think you always require a B license, but in Holland you can have quad with a L7e title (three wheeled vehicle ). The difference with a quad that has a "car" title is for L7e you have to wear a helmet unless there is a seatbelt, and for the latter you do *not* have to wear a helmet.

[rednorfolk]

come to the bigknock ,lots of good people to talk to about diesel bikes/trikes.