insurance

[astranomical dave]

Hi some of you will know my bike better than me the bike is a bmw watsonian outfit with an astra 1.7td engine this is still running fine but when I tried to renew my insurance with carol nash for the second year they have now told me that they can not cover me and that they made a mistake by covering me to begin with It seems that they will not cover bikes with car engines or turbo diesels is this the end of my bike or does anyone know who will cover me
many thanks
dave

[Dan J]

Hi Dave. It seems Carole Nash have gone down the route of only insuring stock bikes (see numerous threads on here with people reporting similar problems). I can certainly report Footman James were most helpful in insuring my bike so I can recommend giving them a go.

[astranomical dave]

spoke to footman james when i built the outfit they just laughed

[sbrumby]

Just a thought have you tried ADRIAN FLUX.

[Diesel Dave]

I have both my diesels covered on a policy from Quoteline direct, the Tiger needed an engineers report but I got my local MOT tester to provide this.

I also have some modified C90's with bigger engines installed and eBike covered them easily for very little money, they have drop downs on the application menu's for engine swaps.

[Mouse]

They just covered the V twin and I told them it came from a German utility vehicle.

Did they specifically state no car engines?

My next project has a car engine in it.

[Sphere]

I would recommend you take a look at Nanko pushing the Earth backwards with his Peuguzzi, if you need any more incentive

[snoopy]

Just got mine insured.

Carole Nash simply said "we do not insure Diesels"

Footman James simply said "no problem".

I did state it had gone from 500 to 404cc and was slower.

[Mouse]

Just rung Carole Nash as my insurance is up at the end of the month and got the same blunt answer and a comment that someone called this morning with a similar query so I was obviously talking to the same bloke. I asked him to check and his team leader apparently confirmed this. I then asked if there had been a policy change with the underwriters as one of the bikes on the existing policy (and renewal) was already a diesel that was covered.

They are now contacting the underwriters and checking before getting back to me.

I had a similar problem last year when Carole Nash bluntly said there was no way they could insure a modified bike for me. Even after telling them that I see their stand at all the big custom shows and that in the world of custom bikes they are rated as one of the best insurers they denied the ability of insuring for me. I called the underwriters. who were shocked and a bit concerned by this and looked at my existing policy and after some more probing I was told that I had a 'standard' policy that allowed 'like for like' replacements but no actual modifications and a suggestion that I rung Carole Nash again and specifically ask for a modified policy and then cancel my existing one. I did this and it all went smoothly, I even had a better deal at cashing in my existing policy and was about £50 better off because of this.

I'll be calling the underwriters my self later this afternoon.

[Mouse]

That's the underwriters wound up and fired at Carole Nash for refusing to offer cover.
They cant see any issues and are going to 'Call them and find out what the problem is' so sounds a bit promising.

[Crazymanneil]

Good luck Mouse. I had hassle with CN not even bothering to call me back when they said they would etc last year.

N

[Mouse]

They did ring me back after the underwriters called them and took the briefest of details saying they would call me back with a policy that would cover me.
You wont be surprised that they never called back.

I'm going to give them one more go tomorrow then give up.

[gilburton]

I hope I'm not going to have problems when I come to insure my MZ/Robin. If Carole Nash are a problem why are they advertising on this forum? How do all these people with customs/chops get insurance???
Does the dieselbike forum have any clout with the insurance companies and could it be classed as a "club"? If so could we not be listed on these company websites in much the same way as classic /kit car clubs etc? You know what I mean just ring up and say you are a member of the club and possibly get a discount???
It seems to me if something is not done we will all be squeezed out and despite the bikes being legal we won't get insurance!!!
All these so called specialist insurance companies are going the same way i.e. if it's not standard they laugh. I expect it's the "supermarket" mentality "if it's not on the shelf we ain't got it".
They should have someone you could talk to and not just a phone operator who goes through the list on the screen.
The main problem is as soon as you mention modified they assume PERFORMANCE (now that's worth laughing over )

[Sphere]

Hah, a club... The only reason Carole Nash is on the front page, is because they enable Stu to drive a luxury limousine and they gave him a brand new Ducati to boot!

[Mouse]

I hope I'm not going to have problems when I come to insure my MZ/Robin. If Carole Nash are a problem why are they advertising on this forum? How do all these people with customs/chops get insurance???

I'm putting a 1600cc car engine into a bike that might be giving me the hassle. Cant see you having a problem at all with yur wee little beasty. I also found out that there is a diesel version of the Enfield on the database so all the Enfield converters have to do is quote that model number and jobs a goodun.

Footman James said that because the cc of the original vehicle had doubled or more (650 to 1600) they had a blanket policy of not insuring and that goes with all vehicles and gave examples of people trying to insure mundane vehicles with top fuelled and turboed V8 engines in them etc which you can understand. They suggested that if the bike had been built for the engine it would have been OK. They and other insurers all sympathised when I said it was built for economy (hopfully) and a top speed of about 95mph and a hp increase of about 15-20hp rather than speeding my way into the justice system but their systems didn't accept it.

Carole Nash initially refused a quote because it was a diesel engine and for no other reason but after lengthy phone calls they dropped that as a reason for refusal and instead said it was because the engine didn't originally come from a motorcycle. This is very odd as this is exactly what the V twin is and that was on the renewal quote and they would have issued a policy on that had I taken it. there are discrepancies between the insured bike and the refusal to quote for the new one as well as the excuse of not insuring diesel being dropped but more importantly was I insured for the last year if they wont cover now ? Also Carole Nash are large enough to write and issue polices with out notifying the underwriters (Or so the underwriters told me) I called the underwriters and there was no conceptual problem with my insurance query so I guess it is a problem with some imbecile numpty in their custom / modified team. So I've lodged a compliant with the underwriters because of these problems I've had with them.

Currently getting a Quote from Bike Sure who I believe are part of the Adrian Flux group. They have been very helpful until the DVLA or whatever database sprung my Suzuki 1200 Bandit as a 50cc moped!! Anyway it currently looks promising.

In fact they just called back with a reasonably hassle free TPFT multi bike modified policy for the 1600cc diesel Dnepr and the 1200 Bandit for about £330.

[gilburton]

Many years ago I found a local broker who specialised in custom vehicles and they were great. Eventually they sold out to a bigger outfit and they lost the personal contact so you couldn't talk to someone who knew and understood vehicles that were a bit different. I believe Carole Nash did the same.
There seems to be plenty of national brokers who specialise in custom/kit cars where the engine is usually swapped for something much larger than intended so why not bikes???
Maybe they need to be made aware of diesel bikes hence my original post??? If I had a V8 Morris Minor there would be no problem
We all know people don't buy megasize cruisers for speed. The brokers are all used to people modyfying for performance and don't understand when you say it has LESS power although the engine is larger(this is a typical feature in cars eg larger diesel to get similar power to a smaller petrol engine)
The problem is if it's not standard they don't want to know. I tried to fill in an online form by clicking "modified" and it came up with loads of boxes to tick. How can you explain the exhaust is modified when you can't get one for your engine anyway?
I could always leave the standard"pepperpot" style exhaust on and honestly say it is not modified
I might have took a chance a few years ago by not declaring everything but not now as they'll use any excuse to void the policy.
On a slightly different note I sent off the V5 about 3/4 weeks ago to get it amended with the new engine etc. I also sent off a v5 for a car I have just sold. I got the car receipt back last week but not the bike v5.
I suspect that as it was not on S.O.R.N I will be getting a fine : ( It's been lying at the back of my store for a couple of years as little more than a frame) although it's in my name I never got any reminders. I hope they don't want an inspection as it's nowhere near ready yet.

[Crazymanneil]

I was gonna suggest Adrian Flux though it looks like you already got there. Footman James only insure classic bikes over here in NI. For that the bike has to be over 15 years old which the tiger is this year Carole Nash did used to be good and I insured by (standard) bikes with them but now seem to have gone downhill as others said.

Would it be worthwhile a lot of us grouping together to complain to the underwriters? Or is it just a few of us?

Neil

[Mouse]

The underwriters are looking into my 'complaint' it would appear I have opened a small can of worms.

They did however say they would insure a motorbike with a diesel engine originally from a car if a sidecar was fitted. Which is an interesting alternative, I guess the weight is an issue so they will need educating about the Smart conversions.

They also said they insured trikes with diesel engines, but only on individual basis and dependant on engine used.

I'll be interested to see what turns up........

[Crazymanneil]

Hm

A friend of mine has part time traders insurance for the car. It means he can drive whatever he wants fully comp which is good with his modified Audi S4. I recall him saying that it was possible to add bikes onto the policy too. Must look into it this year.

N

[Oftenlost]

Hi,
I had a bit of a phone around when it came to insuring my Sommer just before I bought it, (Left this minor detail a bit late!) Carol Nash didn't say no outright , but asked me to E-Mail details of the bike and they would run it passed their specialist underwriters. I sent them the blurb and they never came back to me.... I take it that is a no then?

Other insurance companies (three or four) just looked up their lists and when I said it was not a Royal Enfield diesel, either said we don't know what it is then or quoted as much as £800 for TPFF! I would prefer them not to waste my time with those sorts of numbers.

Just when I was about to give up on buying the bike as it looked as though I could not insure it, my brother gave me a number for "Peter James Insurance." He was half of Footman James before they were sold. He has gone solo and back to running a smaller less impersonal insurance company, particularly for classics..

I spoke to a very nice lady on the phone, explained what the bike was and after a quick check, she came up with a very good quote for fully comp with a reasonable excess and European breakdown/legal cover. Job done! I was also able to arrange a thirty day cover note off the frame number while I waited to import it and get a UK plate from the DVLC.

There was no extra charge for updating the paperwork when I advised them of the new plate number. I am always annoyed at the penny grabbing antics of insurance companies when it comes to any form of paper work alterations.

The underwriters by the way are Equity Red Star. Ian.

[alexanderfoti]

I spoke to carol nash who also refused outright to insure me. Footman james however are very good.

I have 3 bikes on my policy, TPFT - European Breakdown cover and I pay just under 300 pounds a year. Very good deal I thought!