L100 Water injection

[alexanderfoti]

Right, so part of the quest to keep the bike running well, I have fitted a water injection system to ensure that ring gumming is kept to a minimum.

This system is very simple and is made entirely from a very cheap 1.2L windscreen washer kit (this one to be specific: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111091290718? ... 1439.l2648)

First step was to modify one of the washer jets so that it produced a mist rather than a stream. This was carried out using a old soldering iron tip, and melting the the front face of the jet so that it was completely blocked, then using a very small heated nail to make a very small pin hole. Its hard to see in the picture:






The next step was to insert the jet into the intake. I had created an intake extension out of plastic for my K+N air filter, so this bit was quite easy as its plastic.

I cut out the shape for the jet and inserted into the hole, it was then glued in place from the outside (so to ensure no glue would be sucked into the engine if it fell off). Its at an odd angle as the jet does not exit in a straight line from the jet.





The remainder is easy, fit the tank, run the wiring and check the flow rate.





Getting the flow right was the most difficult. I ended up using a hairpin shaped peice of metal over the delivery pipe, and held the revs at 3500rpm. I then ran the pump and kept compressing the clip over the pipe until the engine stopped bogging down. I confirmed that water was still flowing by looking through the intake. Happy days!

I will run 1.2 liters through the engine on each tank full, I will also be keeping a close eye on engine oil for signs of polymerisation.

Also posted here: http://fotifixes.com/2013/09/04/xj-600- ... injection/

[coachgeo]

another way to make the jet is to epoxy or braze a medical needle into a brass hose barb fitting. Then braze/plastic weld etc. a female fitting to screw the barb into. advantage of that is you can experiment with needle sizes by unscrewing the hose barb and setting up a new one. I hear that fine tiny drill bits can be easily purchased at hobby shops if you want to drill holes of various tiny sizes. Just be slow and take your time.

Another which might work good in your situation since your dealing with a plastic tube as part of air intake..... is hydroponic misters (plant water misters)

Any of the plastic stuff.... if you switch to Alcohol/water inject.... take a piece of the tube, plastic water container etc that is of the like your using and drop it in a little glass cup of the max alcohol mix you might use. Watch if over time to see if the alcohol breaks down the materials.

[alexanderfoti]

Thanks for the info coach. The nozzle was the most difficult part of the whole thing. There are loads of nozzles available for alcohol injection but they are very expensive.

Also lots of brass misting nozzles available in America but shipping was killer.

I did look at the hydroponic nozzles as you mention, but none of the ones I could find made a fine most, most of them where a jet of water in one direction.

I like the idea of using medical needles in brass valves and thanks for the advice on testing the nozzles on alcohol, I wouldn't have thought to do that.

The only thing I'm wondering is if the washer pump is up to running constantly.

[Eddy Wane]

If you need any help with the alcohol testing give me a call. Anything will do - Gin, Whisky, Bacardi.

[alexanderfoti]

If you need any help with the alcohol testing give me a call. Anything will do - Gin, Whisky, Bacardi.

Hehe will certainly keep that in mind.

[coachgeo]

r

...The only thing I'm wondering is if the washer pump is up to running constantly.

Constantly?? no..... no need for that. Use a brake light switch that is mechanically activated off the brake pedal of a car similar... (push on... spring's back to off (momentary switch) and either rig it to be pushed by your linkage at full throttle or manually or both. You only need to pop it off occasionally. Reason for full throttle is it kicks in like a passing gear adding little extra oomph

[coachgeo]

r

...The only thing I'm wondering is if the washer pump is up to running constantly.

Constantly?? no..... no need for that. Use a brake light switch that is mechanically activated off the brake pedal of a car similar... {push on... spring's back to off (momentary switch)} and either rig it to be pushed by your linkage at full throttle or manually with foot or thumb or both. You only need to pop it off occasionally to clean carbon out. Reason for full throttle switch is it kicks in like a passing gear adding little extra oomph. Any more than that and you would be dragging a trailer water tank around behind you.

[alexanderfoti]

The only reason I say that is that my plan to use it, is to activate it on a switch when im crusing at top speed, as this is basically full throttle, run it for 2-3 minutes to empty the bottle and then turn it off for 500 miles or so. So constantly 2-3 minutes rather than constantly the whole ride

Rinse repeat, etc, although the idea of running it off a full throttle actuator does sound quite good. A rear brake light switch is all thats needed to acomplish that.

[Eddy Wane]

I am intrigued by the water injection idea. Does it make the engine perform noticeably better or is there another purpose in doing it?
I have heard about the principle before as a fuel saving measure but how to control the water spray is a bit of a black art.

[alexanderfoti]

I am intrigued by the water injection idea. Does it make the engine perform noticeably better or is there another purpose in doing it?
I have heard about the principle before as a fuel saving measure but how to control the water spray is a bit of a black art.

I have noticed little difference but I have not really tested it it.

I am using it primarily to prevent ring gumming from running vegetable oil.

[tappy]

I have some recollection from discussions with gas turbine engineers that an effective way to achieve a fine mist is to direct two jets at each other (this is useful for achieving good combustion in gas turbine engines). One way to do this is to heat and bend a fine hypodermic needle into a "U". Fixed the free ends into a single holder, then slit the "U" and feed the liquid from both sides.

Bending the needle without flattening it, and slitting it without blocking it must take great skill and care, and I've never heard of anyone actually successfully employing this method, but I'm sure someone on here has the inclination to have a go...

[Eddy Wane]

Thanks for that answer Alex. Is that a common problem with running veggie?

Regarding the atomiser jet. Would the jet from the old fashioned fly spray, the one that looks like a bicycle hand pump with a small tin on the end do the job. Whether the induction side of the engine will pull the water through it and mist effectively would need testing.

[alexanderfoti]

Thanks for that answer Alex. Is that a common problem with running veggie?

Regarding the atomiser jet. Would the jet from the old fashioned fly spray, the one that looks like a bicycle hand pump with a small tin on the end do the job. Whether the induction side of the engine will pull the water through it and mist effectively would need testing.

No probs. It is with direct injection diesels as the oil hits the cylinder walls and the polymerises in the piston rings. It's cheap ish Insurance

[coachgeo]

...

No probs. It is with direct injection diesels as the oil hits the cylinder walls and the polymerises in the piston rings. It's cheap ish Insurance

Yep........... the IDI have less problem with coking when using alt fuels. Tis another reason I went with Kubota engine.

From what I've read the water inject making any real "difference" in ooomph is margional yet gives one a step above that maybe more with a turbo diesel.

[alexanderfoti]

...

No probs. It is with direct injection diesels as the oil hits the cylinder walls and the polymerises in the piston rings. It's cheap ish Insurance

Yep........... the IDI have less problem with coking when using alt fuels. Tis another reason I went with Kubota engine.

From what I've read the water inject making any real "difference" in ooomph is margional yet gives one a step marional in a turbo diesel.

I really would like a z482 but they are hard to find for l100 money.when they do pop up on eBay they are from unknown sources with unknown hours.

[alexanderfoti]

Further update, repurchased brake light switch used to activate the pump at full throttle now

[coachgeo]

Do you have any pre H2O inject pictures of the internal's of the engine? If so will be interesting to see differences if you have to break down the engine for anything post injecting it.

Look forward to performance measurement changes you find when injecting.

[alexanderfoti]

Do you have any pre H2O inject pictures of the internal's of the engine? If so will be interesting to see differences if you have to break down the engine for anything post injecting it.

Look forward to performance measurement changes you find when injecting.

I don't unfortunately, but the engine had been running on diesel for most of its life so it should be pretty clean.

[alexanderfoti]

Just switched to 30/70 methanol and water (windscreen washer fluid). Managed 30 up a hill in 4th with it. Normally have to drop down to 3rd!

[coachgeo]

Just switched to 30/70 methanol and water (windscreen washer fluid). Managed 30 up a hill in 4th with it. Normally have to drop down to 3rd!

Thanks for update. That's interesting

[alexanderfoti]

My oil level has also stopped rising since using water injection.

[coachgeo]

My oil level has also stopped rising since using water injection.

hmmm....... was it rising from fuel seeping by the rings you suspect? What is your thoughts on why this is?

[alexanderfoti]

My oil level has also stopped rising since using water injection.

hmmm....... was it rising from fuel seep by the rings you suspect? What is your thoughts on why this is?

Yeah I think it's due to a small amount of fuel seeping past on cold starts.

The engine only holds about 1.5 l of oil so a little bit of fuel makes a big difference to the level.

I have read that if the oil feels sticky between your fingers that you should change it immediately. So far so good, compared to my car oil it's stickiness is the same heh.