Bad, bad boy: NO COOKIE!

[XLerate]

Hi all!

Excuse the length. Here's a couple of edited emails I sent to a Moderator to see if there was a good answer. We both ended up stumped & no wonder!

"Got a small problem. I log in and check the 'Log me on automatically each visit' or whatever it says but software or something may delete cookies. Have to log on again almost every time when I click on the link in an email announcing thread replies. Sometimes when I click on my 'Favorites' link in browser to view forum I'm logged in, other times not! Rarely when clicking on an email link it shows me logged in on arrival.

Also when surfing the site & logged in sometimes it drops me after making one reply. Have to log in again. On other occasions I've clicked on email link & everything goes just fine, I'm recognized as logged in & can reply etc. I'd suspect it's my computer except it works fine sometimes, if that means anything.

I use good old antique XP-Pro, IE6 browser, Avast! antivirus & Outpost Firewall. When I look in 'Cookies' the DB cookie may be there. Next time I look it may be there or gone! Acting like a volatile cookie when it shouldn't."

He replied that he thought I needed to enable cookies on my machine, which makes sense of course. I replied this email:

"Unfortunately it seems to be more complicated. Just now I opened my email, got notification of your PM. Clicked on email link and was taken to my PM's page, and in upper right corner I'm identified as XLerate. At that time forum software knows it's me, recognizes resident cookie. But: clicked on PM from you to read & redirected to Log-in! On that Log-in page my name wasn't in upper right corner, software wasn't recognizing me or reading the cookie. That's all within maybe 5-7 seconds, strange indeed...

My normal settings: I manually allow cookies on forum sites when logging on & click 'Remember me' to accept cookie [with cookies enabled in my browser]. Once a forum cookie is accepted I change to my normal settings to block all cookies. Works fine on all my other phpBB forums [also one of my favorite software for forums because of features]. All but this one. I've tried leaving cookies enabled for this site while browsing & get the same glitches, still get rerouted to Log-in even though software recognizes me. That's the weird part."

One extra correction: one other site uses the same phpBB software and recently did a 'Software Upgrade'. Ever since that the forum is impossible to navigate, all sorts of strange glitches. A few others there have complained too, but only very few.

So, anybody have any ideas?
Thanks!

[Stuart]

If I remember right, IE6 is THE worst browser you can use. That might be the problem
I was using a later version and tried to upgrade - bad mistake I've now gone over to Google Chrome.

[XLerate]

Well, gotta say, the main reason it's a 'bad browser' is because Microsoft strong-armed all their major commercial users with scare tactics to do 'Upgrades'. Part of these upgrades is designed to ruin IE6, no accident. IE6 is currently the most widely used browser with corporations data systems. Microsoft wanted to force all them to do major upgrade$ & use newer $y$tems. Gotta make that almighty dollar ya know.

Back on topic, the thing is that my system, as is, works just fine on other forum sites using the same phpBB software as used here. No problem at all with the cookie handling. Only here. Another site with phpBB did an 'upgrade' but didn't finish the job, so that one doesn't work well for me or most other members, but that's the only exception.

Oh well, thanks anyways...

[Stuart]

Here's something about why IE6 was bad.
http://corwinwebs.com/story/worst-browser

[XLerate]

Rather large subject & I'm not particularly computer literate, but I'll take a shot at it!

First, this guy seems to have a personal problem with Microsoft. I don't blame him, I do too! However there are some gaping holes in his logic set.

"Without going into specifics, Internet Explorer 6 [IE6] doesn't render modern web pages in a very modern way. The core of its failing is its inability to parse what is called a Cascading Style Sheet [CSS], which just happens to be a style sheet the controls how a modern web page looks. CSS has been on the scene for nearly 10 years but has gone through more versions than Louie, Louie. It's been a race between those in charge of CSS standards and those in charge of web browsers to see who catches up with whom."

"In 2001, IE and its various previous versions owned nearly 95% of the browsing world. Because of the Netscape problems and Mozilla launching problems, it had NO COMPETITION. And as we know from the health industry, no competition leads to sloth. Microsoft didn't really care if their product was "standards compliant" or even if it worked particularly well and didn't see a need for a new version anytime soon [IE7 was launched in October of 2006, 5 long years after IE6 was introduced]."

First it's recognized that M/S was so far ahead of the entirety of other browsers that there was simply no competition anywhere: it was a Microsoft world on the internet. So he spins that to say that because M/S was at so high a plateau above everybody else, they're consumate jerks for not changing what they're doing! Huh? What?

He notes that new ways of doing things were invented which M/S couldn't keep up with. Well, a much more accurate picture is that a whole bunch of wonder boys & girls dreamed up new operating systems or software that were entirely incompatible & dysfunctional with the single #1 browser that commanded 95% of the market place!

This also caused that all other software that was logically designed in compatibility with the #1 browser being used by the huge majority of individuals & corporations would instantly be rendered useless, unless 'updated' to also work with the new browsers that were hardly a skidmark in the market place and which performed poorly.

Who is the dummy here? But the others got together & even though in competition with one another they all jumped into technology that would render #1 useless, for their own advantages. No matter what, when the dust cleared the group would have a larger share of the market, if their strongarm tactics worked. They worked. After that all that's left to worry about is infighting within the new crowd developers on how the pie is going to be cut.

Then M/S is between a rock & a hard place. Either change their browser to be compatible with all the new competitors or lose market share. So IE7 was seen, to deal with CSS, with all its built in catastrophe. That damaged M/S's reputation which was already getting trashed by software developers building things that wouldn't run in IE6: as if IE6 was to blame!

After this all the hoopla kicked in from the Security sector of computer software. Claims were made that M/S stuff leaked like a sieve and was totally unsafe. Well, if security products such as anti-virus etc. was properly designed, IE6 could be as secure as a bank vault. Decision? "Screw M/S, it's old & out of date anyway and we're taking over the market, plus it's incompatible with any 'modern' software! We won't even try to keep it secure..." Was that a Microsoft failure?

My very strong suspicion is that there are not legions of deranged & demented sickos out there with computers, who also have the extreme level of skills necessary to invent these complex viruses, trojans & worms etc. I mean really, how many people have you known who wanted to do as much damage as possible to total strangers who had never effected their lives in any way? Not many, huh? Me neither.

Who stands to profit fatly from malware by merit of being able to come up with a solution to the attacks, which solution earns money? Ummmm, just maybe the guys who invented the malware, such as all those nice computer security companies, who so quickly come up with a very profitable solution?

So, as for IE6 truly & genuinely being a lousy browser, no, not at all. The problem is in planned obsolescence and also the concerted attack on it by a very large group who joined together to destroy its image by designing incompatible software. Other than that it's entirely functional, works great. With the right AV & Firewall it's quite secure as well.

[XLerate]

By the way, just guessing here, but I imagine the problem I'm having may be related to the 'Remember me' part of the log-in. My computer is indeed accepting the website server's cookie, so my computer instantly recognizes your server. I can see it in my machine's Cookies file folder.

However I suspect that your server isn't placing a cookie on itself to recognize my computer & cookie within 'Remember me' status. At the digital handshake when accessing the forum it should see the 'Remember me' status cookie on itself and search for & compare to my resident cookie on my computer, and allow open communication, but instead it draws a blank and another log-in is requred.

[XLerate]

By the way, Stuart, my little rant wasn't aimed at you!

I appreciate you going to the trouble of finding & posting the link to what you'd mentioned here.

I'm pretty much anti-computer, handy as they are.

Thanks!

[Stuart]

Computers, don't cha luv 'em? I tend to use an iPad to surf here most days and the only problem I have there is i can't post pictures too well.

[XLerate]

Yeah, waiting for my ship to come in so I can afford a newer computer, but I heard it sunk somewhere off of Gibraltar...

[Sphere]

It isn't very obvious to me which parts of your posts are quotes and which are your own opinions, but I will state a few facts and some heart-felt advice that sprung to mind when reading all this:

- IE6 is a crap browser with more holes than Swiss cheese. Also the support for modern webtechniques is... shall we say lacking? Adding AV and a firewall will just mitigate the risk of using it, and will by no means make it "quite secure".
- I recommend you try a newer browser to see if that solves your problem. Either pick Firefox or Google Chrome (I use the latter, but the former has more plugins for the tinfoil types amongst us). It should enhance the rendering webpages, as well as unlock features like HTML5 and what not.
- MS actually has gone through quite a few hoops to support IE6, because corporate users have websites or frontends to applications that contain so many IE6-isms it is impossible to display them on other browsers. Note how MS offers support for XP until April 2014. That is almost 13 years of support. I use linux and love it, but commercial support on distributions that old... I don't think so. Not everything about MS is evil
- It might be a phpBB3 issue only triggered by IE6. Try searching the web/ask a mailing list

What can Board Administration do (from the phpBB FAQ):

I (or my users) cannot stay logged in to the forum!
If you (or your users) are, after attempting a login, being returned to the index (or other page) without appearing to be logged in the most likely problem is incorrect cookie settings. phpBB 2 uses cookies to store a session id and a small amount of user data. For this data to be stored correctly the cookie domain, path and secure settings must be correct. You can check this in Admin->General Configuration->Cookie settings. Typically the cookie domain can be left blank and the cookie path set to / (a single forward slash). Do not set the cookie as being secure unless your board is running over a secure sockets layer connection, ie. https://

If you still have problems try setting the cookie domain to your full domain name, eg. http://www.mysystem.tld, http://www.something.mydomain.tld. You must ensure the domain name contains at least two dots or browsers will be unlikely to recognise the cookie, eg. .mydomain.com, mydomain.com. Do not add http:// or anything else to the domain name!

My users are complaining about being logged out too quickly!
You can increase the default length of sessions (ie. how long before a users session is considered 'dead') in Admin->General->Configuration->Cookie Settings->Session Length. Set it to whatever value your users feel comfortable with, remember that security issues may affect your decision (ie. having too long a session may allow non-users to abuse your board should a user forget to logout or otherwise leave a current session on a public workstation).

[XLerate]

Thanks for advice. I downloaded & installed Firefox & spent weeks customizing so it would work. Then had problems with it also. It would not function unless all cookies from all sources were allowed. I posted to Firefox forums several times and no answer. I don't want a browser that loads my machine with all sorts of 3rd party cookies, tracking cookies etc. Firefox is useless for me because I must set machine to accept all cookies all the time from every source.

Regarding this site & phpBB, other forums using the same software are working with no problems like this particular problem. The only way this forum will work for me is just like Firefox: allow all cookies or no go. That may not even do it. That's not the case on other phpBB forums.

The login cookie is dropped on my machine when I log in. Even if I check the box to stay logged in it's the same. Then when session finishes the cookie expires, in other words a volatile cookie. I can see the cookie on my machine when I check for it, but after a session it expires. So it's not a problem with my browser or machine, it's something to do with the coding of the cookie. Possibly some of that you posted applies.

If I had the same problem on any other forum, especially phpBB software driven forums, then it's my machine's software. In fact the problem only occurs here.

So, I can't/won't use Firefox and this site doesn't work right on cookies. That's about all I know. I was going to upgrade to IE8 but apparently plenty of problems there, plus I don't have a way to back up all of both my hard drives in case it goes into disaster mode when upgrading.

Your basic rock & a hardplace, surrounded by a swamp...

[coachgeo]

scanned this message quickly. Applogizing if repeating anything

run a virus and adware scan.

something may be chaning your settings... reminents of an old virus/adware.

[XLerate]

Thanks, buddy, good idea! Unfortunately that ain't the case here, clean as a whistle.

I just went back & checked the resident Cookies on my hard drive. I've received a Cookie many dozens of times when logging on to this site. Each time I've checked that box to be logged on automatically each future visit. Checking just now, there's not one single Cookie from this website on my drive! All the rest are there where they belong, all from this forum are gone.

I think it's something like that mentioned by Sphere in his post in this thread, quoting from phpBB FAQ regarding cookies, instruction to Board Administrators:

"I (or my users) cannot stay logged in to the forum!
If you (or your users) are, after attempting a login, being returned to the index (or other page) without appearing to be logged in the most likely problem is incorrect cookie settings. phpBB 2 uses cookies to store a session id and a small amount of user data. For this data to be stored correctly the cookie domain, path and secure settings must be correct. You can check this in Admin->General Configuration->Cookie settings. Typically the cookie domain can be left blank and the cookie path set to / (a single forward slash). Do not set the cookie as being secure unless your board is running over a secure sockets layer connection, ie. https://

If you still have problems try setting the cookie domain to your full domain name, eg. http://www.mysystem.tld, http://www.something.mydomain.tld. You must ensure the domain name contains at least two dots or browsers will be unlikely to recognise the cookie, eg. .mydomain.com, mydomain.com. Do not add http:// or anything else to the domain name!

My users are complaining about being logged out too quickly!
You can increase the default length of sessions (ie. how long before a users session is considered 'dead') in Admin->General->Configuration->Cookie Settings->Session Length. Set it to whatever value your users feel comfortable with, remember that security issues may affect your decision (ie. having too long a session may allow non-users to abuse your board should a user forget to logout or otherwise leave a current session on a public workstation)."

According to phpBB FAQ some sort of Admin stuff is required to prevent this happening. Beyond me what all that is, but it describes the exact problem I'm having. The Cookie dropped on my drive immediately expires when I leave the site, so it's in effect a 'Volatile' Cookie rather than permanent 'Non-volatile' Cookie.

For me it's just a pain in the hiney to always have to log on, sometimes again during the same session!

Thanks, Coach, appreciate the efffort!

[coachgeo]

well...... logging in all the time is not as much of a PITA as ya think. Could be worse.

I gotta log on everytime since my economy means only internet or even computer use I get is at the local public library.

Feel your pain though. On my own computer when I had electricity and internet...... could not use ebay with explorer. It refused to save ebay cookies. Every other site.... it saved fine.

check your virus checker/blocker software? Maybe it is blocking saving cookies from this site cause it does not like the "suckin" in the name. You may have to manually add this web address into the virus checker/blocker as a acceptable site.

[XLerate]

Thanks, pard, again I appreciate the tips!

Yeah, it's kinda 'Want my cake & to eat it too!' I'm on dialup & of course resource hog Windows & Internet Explorer is so slow.

RE: electricity, I've been working on a couple of freebie dead generator sets, a 10hp 5,000W & a little 5 horse 3,000W unit. Frequent power outages in winter. Got the 5,000 all done, works fine, needed a carb clean & tuneup. The 3,000 needed a new fuel tank to replace the rust bucket. Has a crapola Briggs & Stratton Pulsa-Jet carburetor, possiby the stupidest carb invention of all time. Cleaned it several times, properly, but still something stuck, maybe under the welch plug. So I've dosed the fuel with Berryman's Chemtool in the fuel, cranked it over & ran till it starved out & died, twice, then leave to soak. Tried it again today & instead of stalling/starving out after 20 seconds, it ran for 45 seconds, hopefully a sign of progress. I do have a 12 gauge slug gun if it wants to play tough guy....

Not sure if a 'line conditioner' is required to run a computer off a genset? Hope not. Maybe you could scrounge around repair shops, Craigslist, bulletin boards & find a gennie?

You may be right on security preventing cookies. Confusing when machine accepts suckin diesel cookie, but then it disappears soon as I switch to another website! Doesn't seem like my security or anti-V would cause that. I'm thinking it's something like 'Cookie data persistence' or whatever the techies with a genuine brain call it, that cookie is volatile, designed to expire by software settings.

Thanks....

[XLerate]

Hi again, Coach!

Did some snooping for you on gen-sets & computers, plus I need to know too. We had power off for 5 days last winter & I'm stuck on the side of a remote mountain, was snowed in, v-e-r-y b-o-r-i-n-g it was!

Maybe some info here at links that you or others can use:

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index ... pic=5938.0

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1501851

[coachgeo]

Hi again, Coach!

Did some snooping for you on gen-sets & computers, plus I need to know too. ..

Thank you, I have a 5,000 watt/ 6000 surge, Yanmar Diesel powered gen set. Just do not use it but once a week or less........ Only do it for some puter work. Has not caused an issue with puter so far but have only done it to watch a dvd or two. With no printer or net service available its easier to just use library.

Granted my cabin is wired as if it was to be installed at a high dollar RV park. (it is desinged to put in RV parks as a rental cabin. Was a display model I got at HUGE discount). Like newer RV's it's actually feed 220v power and inside the camper's wiring the power is split 110v to front end and second 110v to the rear of the camper. I have no idea if that splitting helps equalize things as the genny burps etc. My Genset has one 220v receptical. Cost me around 80 bucks to have the special Pig Tail made up with the right combination of 4 prong male/female on the ends to mate genset to cabin.

My lights are solar recharge garden lights and spot lights, along with one battery powered ; 80 led trouble light, rechargable; via 110v or 12v. Plan is to Charge it on way to work in auto. Eventually a solar panel briefcase type charger for it. Have accepted that you "look" at lighting different when gen/set solar powered. You light the area surrounding you enough to do the task at hand... you dont "light" the room. Trying to light the room like we are accustom to makes alternative engergy way to expensive to do.

But Im wayyyyyyyyy off topic and I appolgize.

[XLerate]

Not to worry, I already trashed my own thread hah! Sounds like you have a cool setup. I too live remote and a guy has to get used to some interesting alternatives, just goes with the territory. Mighty quiet & peaceful, wouldn't want to trade it.

[XLerate]

Received an email that a reply had been posted to a thread I subscribed to.

Before hitting the link in the email I went into Windows with Explore feature & checked the cookies. There sat the cookie for suckindiesel.com. Clicked on email link to thread, website was brutally slow loading. Instead of recognizing me & taking me to the thread I was re-directed to Login page.

Checked Cookies again, suckindiesel cookie still there! Logged in & re-checked Cookies. Log-in process had deleted the former Cookie and dropped a new one!!!! They're displayed in order & time received & it was obvious the old one was removed by suckindiesel software!

So, this ain't got a damned thing to do with my Windows Internet Explorer 6 browser or my Security or machine or any other blasted thing: the suckindiesel phpBB website software is ripping out its own Cookies, bizarre! Just watched it happen!

[XLerate]

Well I don't know what whomever did but whatever whomever changed it's working fine! Nice little forum Christmas gift & makes for a much brighter New Year!

Last 2 times I've signed on from an email notification link the website has recognized me & no further problems posting. THANKS!!!!! Where's the hugs & kisses icon??

[Stuart]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16408850

[XLerate]

Yea, but you know how they lie...

Puzzles me why these Mr. Genius computer companies can't get their act together to actually help consumers instead of themselves! I've yet to hear of an operating system upgrade that doesn't have a very real potential of rendering your computer worthless!

Also, what if you go ahead & back up everything? You can buy a hard disc that holds terrabytes of info common as can be. But backup media is back in the gigabyte ages so you can look at a couple of dozen media discs to get there. Plus some dangerously complicated bs to get the copying back & forth to work.

A super easy, seamless install with automatic backup & a media that is up to the current day would make light years of difference. "Naw, screw you folks, can't you see we've got MONEY TO MAKE HERE!??!!"

Anyways, THANKS because whatever was done worked great for little old me....

[jamma]

Hi again, Coach!

Did some snooping for you on gen-sets & computers, plus I need to know too. ..

Thank you, I have a 5,000 watt/ 6000 surge, Yanmar Diesel powered gen set. Just do not use it but once a week or less........ Only do it for some puter work. Has not caused an issue with puter so far but have only done it to watch a dvd or two. With no printer or net service available its easier to just use library.

Granted my cabin is wired as if it was to be installed at a high dollar RV park. (it is desinged to put in RV parks as a rental cabin. Was a display model I got at HUGE discount). Like newer RV's it's actually feed 220v power and inside the camper's wiring the power is split 110v to front end and second 110v to the rear of the camper. I have no idea if that splitting helps equalize things as the genny burps etc. My Genset has one 220v receptical. Cost me around 80 bucks to have the special Pig Tail made up with the right combination of 4 prong male/female on the ends to mate genset to cabin.

My lights are solar recharge garden lights and spot lights, along with one battery powered ; 80 led trouble light, rechargable; via 110v or 12v. Plan is to Charge it on way to work in auto. Eventually a solar panel briefcase type charger for it. Have accepted that you "look" at lighting different when gen/set solar powered. You light the area surrounding you enough to do the task at hand... you dont "light" the room. Trying to light the room like we are accustom to makes alternative engergy way to expensive to do.

But Im wayyyyyyyyy off topic and I appolgize.

I've some maglite led flashlights , those are also rechargeable and with heavy battery power. A great fun to use

[jamma]

I think good led lights are available here. Click Here to Visit