how possible is a small engine diesel quad?

[SirDiesel]

I want a quad bike. I've always wanted a quad bike, just for tooling about town on.. seeing a local lucky git on a road legal quad today in the snow has annoyed me into action. lol.

The reason I haven't bought a quad before is that on petrol they aren't really a great deal more economical than cars/no more economical than a xud 1/306. I've got a diesel bike plan too but i'm really enthusiastic about the little ruggerini/kubota type diesels because of the mpg, simplicity and the reliability + my love for the diesel engine. Didn't i read about a new cdi from ruggerini that should get good mpg but revs higher than previous engines? Another benefit is on a dieselquad i can use my car licence, whereas on a bike i would have to take my full test would i not? i'm only on a cbt. I ask this here because there isnt a lot of info on diesel quads out there, and the ones that are, are agricultural quads, whereas i'm talking about a racing quad style road legal thing.

Design brief would have to be
1: capable of 50mph for shortish periods - up to about 5-7 miles
2: capable of either twin tank/rapid heatup or single tank/blends of diesel and w/svo.
3: enough go to maintain 30-40mph speed up reasonable hills, i live in sheffield so it's hilly around here
4: mpg x lots
5: CVT - somewhere i read about dual v-belts being good for engine-cvt drive?

i prefer electric start, i can live without a kick start on a diesel so only keeping pullstart as a back up to the electric (if applicable) the performance figures above are minimums to be safe on the roads around here - if i can get more i'll take it but i'm after maximum possible mpg without going to 2 wheels. obviously I'll want full lights (leds + whatever headlamp). Serious project as i'd be expecting to use it regularly to daily. i'm not small.. 16 stone (no probs pullstarting ) so my weight might be a factor?

trying to keep it as simple as possible, but i'm aware of the low power output of the engines so i was looking at one of the small engine'd chinese quads to keep the weight and cost down, a bashan BS200S - can i post ebay links here? they're mostly road legal anyway

ruggerini md151 654cc? or would it have to be the md191 851cc? the latter is probably too big

or any other more suitable quad? any advice on the project? need input so much i can taste it lol

[LocomotiveBreath]

Diesel Quad, here;
http://www.atvriders.com/atvmodels/arct ... 4-atv.html

Looks like artic cat is using a Lombardini LDW-702 engine,
http://www.lombardinigroup.it/en_US/lom ... es/ldw-702

[Stuart]

Polaris quad always seemed to go quite well. 455cc? Added electronics stopped the engine starting in reverse I seem to remember.
Before anyone asks I'm not opening another room for four wheeled vehicles!

[SirDiesel]

hehe no extra forum needed i dont think.. doubt diesel road quads are very popular being as all the diesel quads sold seem to be agri quads.. and the fact that most road quad owners will want the power their petrol engines give

had a brief look at the (defunct?) polaris, and the ecorider quad (another 450 agri) and its food for thought but they all seem to be geared low for agri use and heavier (bigger?) by quite a way than the less sturdy chinese road biased (but petrol) ones. I guess i'll never be towing either although i might take a passenger. The weight of the bashan quad i'm looking at, i found on a german bulk supplier of them and dry it's 168kg.. but looking at the weight of these engines the frame will probably need beefing up around the engine anyway

i'm just scanning ruggerini/lombardini sites and the md151 is about 15hp? it's big at 650cc/twin though. Happened to find a page for a very slightly smaller changfa cf186fe (6.5kw/8.8bhp rated 7.3/10 max) from 402cc/single but fuel consumption is down as 273.5 g/kwh. i've no idea the kind of speeds i'd be able to attain with either engine. assuming constant 6.5kw load fuel consumption would be 1777.75g/hr on the changfa which is only 2kg lighter than the 50kg m151

someone here told me that the MD series are all 246g per kw/hr a while back. i'm doing all my ratings based on using the engine's full rated power (top speed) so 8.8bhp for the changfa and ~15 for the ruggerini. making the md151 at full power consume 2706g/hr.. HMM nearly double the power for slightly more than half as much fuel consumption again.. i'm not ignoring the 850cc MD191 but i'm aware of the fact that there's very limited space for engine in the frame i want to use which is only a 200cc petrol out of the box after all: - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASHAN-200-ROAD-L ... _945wt_888

i'm thinking the changfa engine is out although i'd like to do a mini scooter on one of their 5bhp engines

[SirDiesel]

Hmmm is 8.8(cons)10(burst) bhp enough for a quad? been running the numbers and i reckon with a small diesel - either a little RY/changfa/other clone 10hp or a lombardini twin 15hp the total vehicle weight will be around 200-220kg.. plus another 100 for me.. lol.. the quad will need to maintain speeds of ~30mph up some pretty steep urban hills. Was planning on going with a CVT for the trans for ease of ride/niceness for the engine.

reason i ask is i bet the lombardini md151 654cc twin is pretty expensive, new (i have a mental picture of a £1500-2000 bill).. whereas i can get a brand new changfa 8.8/10hp single with electric start for about 500 quid.. i've no idea where to get them from second hand, but i do keep looking on ebay.. for me, this build is going to be difficult enough as it'll be the first time i've modified a tube frame to take a different engine and i'm going at it blind.. don't really know what i'm doing so all i'm following is what other people have done on their bike projects.. so its not worth taking a gamble on a 2nd hand engine that could bring me problems if the changfa will do it (the standard engine im looking to replace is a 180cc 4 stroke petrol) and if i can get em new for that money

i've no real idea how to mount an engine into a frame.. my plan was to get it in there straight then keep adding mounts till it was solid in there and didnt seem to stress the frame/i ran out of mount locations on the engine.. but i'm going to do this project even if i have to load the bits in the landie and drive to someone who knows better than i do and pay em to fit it/right my errors

[coachgeo]

... but they all seem to be geared low for agri use and heavier (bigger?)...

Geared low... that is easier to change than building a whole new Quad. Heavier.... well of course..... they have diesel engines in them. Diesels require heavier construction due to vibration and weight.

[SirDiesel]

agreed on the above points but we're talking the difference between 138kg out of the box, rwd with stock petrol engine and 400+kg 4wd stock

or about a 600lb difference. Agri quads are designed to go slow, pull massive weights, etc across nasty terrain. racing quads and road legal copies of racing quads are much lighter built to cope with less terrain but faster.. the point of my project is to take the road type quad and make it more suitable for road use than off road but swap it over to a diesel.. a big agri quad just isnt suitable for that and because of its increased weight wouldn't be any more economical than an original 200cc petrol road legal quad even if it was suitable... and they arent any more economical than a small car which defeats the whole point lol

what i want at the end of it is a commuter bike, but a quad.. economical and able to keep up with modern town traffic but i'm not bothered about fast. Had thought that with a cheapie road legal quad weighing about the same as a big heavy bike i could use a similar engine.. but i need advice such as what i will need to do to the frame to make it strong enough to hold the engine, etc..?

[Mouse]

Having just put a sidecar on my 15hp diesel bike giving it som,e extra weight and frontal area I'd say you'd be wanting 15 to 20 hp to be useful for what you want. I'd also go with a agricultural type quad as they are built for the job and a lot of what I've seen of the chinese stuff is its not really of automotive quality or robustness.
It might also be worthy to remember that idiots driving souped up quadbikes on the road are often a target for the police and looking not-fast and unsporting might be an advantage.

[dieselbikin]

My diesel bike has a 10hp Yanclone with a 600 lbs GVW and on a fairly level test course it hits a top speed of 56 MPH and averages 50 MPH. I also have a Yamaha Beartracker 250 “Agri” ATV and it is no heavier than a sport ATV. Point being a smaller 2WD utility ATV might be a better comparison for weight. However, the sport versions tend to have a wider track, stiffer suspension, and possibly better brakes. If you are strictly street riding a sport model would have better handling characteristics, but you give up those cool front and rear racks that come in so handy. I would like a more powerful engine myself, but the Yanclone was all I could afford and it does a good job. It is compact and light. If the point is economy then it may be sufficient. More horsepower would be better, but the jump in price for the larger diesels is such that it would take a lot of riding to break even with fuel savings. Have you tried running a higher final drive ratio with the gas engine? You buy a smaller rear sprocket blank from surpluscenter.com and drill it to fit your ATV's rear axle. Just a thought.

Now that Comet Industries is out of business what are people doing for CVTs? I’ve been researching transmissions for my son’s “racing” mower and ran across the Peerless 700 series 5 speed with reverse. Cheap, lightweight, and strong. Only problem is that its input shaft is on the bottom and it's not made to be shifted on the go. Maybe someone can figure a way around this.

[coachgeo]

...Now that Comet Industries is out of business what are people doing for CVTs?....

check the to top of the Technical talk / Clutch.... and CVT forum In their is a thread about another company out of Canada makig CVT and they are now avialable in the US.