The Jatalian

On-going, finished, abandoned builds & questions galore..

Moderators: Dan J, Diesel Dave, Crazymanneil, Stuart

Post Reply
cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:46 am

I figured I better start a thread as I am actually working on it. I picked Jatalian because I am stuffing an Italian Lambordini engine into Japanese Suzuki GS550L. Also, because Jatalian rolls off the tongue much better than Italpanese.

I have this. It’s missing a lot of small stuff, but has all the big stuff.
Image

And this. It runs well and I have 20+ years experience with them.
Image

The plan is to hack the crankcase off of what’s left of the Suzuki engine and use the six speed counter rotating transmission ala Diesel Wiesel. So far, I am here.
Image

I had some misgivings about the transmission early on because I could not get it to shift, at all. Turned out that the detent for the shift drum was stuck. Once that was freed up, the transmission went easily through all its gears. All the internals are now out of the case and I am in the process of cleaning off the yuck(had both a leaking shifter seal and sat outside with the top end off the crankcase) plus taking notes and measurements. Also scrounging missing bits. About the only Suzuki GS550L specific bits I need are a front caliper, a rear brake pedal, and a seat retaining latch. The fuel tank may need to be a custom job but we shall see.
To quote Indiana Jones, “I’m making this up as I go.”

Will keep you posted.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

User avatar
Diesel Dave
Site Admin
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 am
Location: Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: The Jatalian

Post by Diesel Dave » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:05 am

Nice start, are you sure you couldn’t up the motor to a 15LD440 or 500?

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:53 pm

I would if I could but even with the Kohler name on them, Lambordini engines are not that common on this side of the pond. At least free ones aren’t. Even basic maintenance items are a crapshoot. I had to source a fuel filter for my 315 from Finland.

All that said, many of our customers (I’m in the rail industry) use small single cylinder diesels on track maintenance equipment, especially transits. The LD 315 was the engine of choice for years, so through what contacts I still have left, getting hard parts isn’t an issue. Good hard parts, though...;) If you want to see how strong your design is, give it to a railroader. The running joke is that a railroader can break an anvil with a rubber hammer.

The LD315, though, is being phased out in favor of Hatz. Hatz does have a better dealer network in the US. It’s also a pretty good engine. I just don’t see my outfit prototyping a machine that’s bad idea with a Hatz engine anytime soon. That’s how I got my Lambordini.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:17 pm

Okay, I am going to ask for the groups collective wisdom before I do something I can't go back and fix. I have two choices on how to cut up the Suzuki block.
1. Cut far enough forward to keep the oil pump intact, thereby having forced lubrication through the transmission and allowing for use of a wet clutch.

2. Cut one inch or so further back and eliminate the oil pump and the oil pan, plug a lot of holes, go with an oil bath and dry clutch.

Neither option is better than the other and neither is perfect. Option 1 is less fab work. Option 2 is more fab work but a smaller package.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

pietenpol2002
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Goshen, IN USA

Re: The Jatalian

Post by pietenpol2002 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:43 am

Will option 2 still require lengthening the frame to fit the engine?
Ron
Goshen, IN USA

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:55 am

Possibly, it’ll be close. Option 2.5 would be to mount the transmission at a slight angle, to vertically, if it doesn’t mess up the chain line too much.
All might be for naught as I have a line on a Harley box for cheap.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

pietenpol2002
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Goshen, IN USA

Re: The Jatalian

Post by pietenpol2002 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:26 pm

-

If you've got a Harley box available on the cheap, go for it. Greatly expands your options for dry clutch, belt primary drive, etc. And then you're soon gonna be wanting to upgrade to more horsepower. And if you've got at solid primary drive/gearbox/final drive it's no problem.
Ron
Goshen, IN USA

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:08 am

Ah, well. It was cheap because it was less complete than my Suzuki engine. Back at it.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:29 am

Some things got done today.

A long Sawzall blade makes short work of a Suzuki block.
Image

Test fit in the frame. Looks like I will need to use a frame stretcher anyway.
Image
The white line on the tranny is for my Option 2 cut. As it looks like I will be stretching the frame anyway, I’ll stick with Option 1 and run a wet clutch.

I got the engine up on the bench by myself. I’d like to say I’m gonna feel that in the morning but I feel it now.
Image
I took off the muffler, air cleaner, and fuel tank. There was just enough fuel in the tank for me to wear Eau du Stink the rest of the day. The blower cover is off to remove the fuel tank studs. I did find one broken blower cover bolt. I got lucky and it came out.

I thought that was a successful day.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

User avatar
Diesel Dave
Site Admin
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 am
Location: Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: The Jatalian

Post by Diesel Dave » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:24 am

I spy a Velosolex....good man.

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:33 am

Diesel Dave wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:24 am
I spy a Velosolex....good man.
If you look to the left of the yellow V3, you can spot the front wheel and muffler of a 3800. I think we chatted on the VeloSolex UK forum.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

pietenpol2002
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Goshen, IN USA

Re: The Jatalian

Post by pietenpol2002 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:27 pm

Planning to go with free air and bin the cover?
Ron
Goshen, IN USA

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:00 pm

pietenpol2002 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:27 pm
Planning to go with free air and bin the cover?
Nope. Just wanted to clean some stuff up. The inside of the cover is cruddy from grinding dust mixed with spilled fuel residue. Ick pretty well describes it.

Beastly hot here, as I imagine it is in the Hoosier State, so I stayed out of the garage this weekend.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:17 am

Still plodding along. Gainful employment cuts into time I get to work on this. So does stuff that SWMBO wants done around the house first.

I’m finding that my Suzuki kit is missing many important parts. What parts I do have won’t work without the parts I don’t have but I am slowly whittling that down. I’m just down to a handful now but they are very important parts having to do with stopping. Going I have pretty much covered. I’m going to need those before I do an “Oops” when cutting the frame.

I got the lump cleaned up so it’s not a greasy mess anymore. During our move to the new place, the oil pressure sender got damaged, so a new one of those is needed. I also will be making a new wire harness to remotely mount the engine control box. Luckily, thanks to the Yellow Pages, (Up yours, Google) I found a Lambordini/Kohler dealer/service center 12 miles from my house. They might have to source stuff from Finland but I won’t have to anymore. I’ve driven past this place for years and didn’t know it was there.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:09 am

A bit more done.
Image
That engine weighs a lot less without the muffler. I sent this pic to a young guy that used to work for me, asking for his assistance in shoving this 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag.
Kid is a heck of a fabricator. He builds custom cars but his specialty is chop tops. He says my DeSoto would look great with a chop and I tell him to look at the baseball bat in my hand. :D

Wrapped up the handlebar controls this morning, too.
Image
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

pietenpol2002
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Goshen, IN USA

Re: The Jatalian

Post by pietenpol2002 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:49 pm

-
That hammer looks unused. Just sayin....... that things gonna to get a workout on this project.
Ron
Goshen, IN USA

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:02 pm

It does look new, doesn’t it. I also have no idea why I have a new hammer when I have about thirty old ones.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:22 am

The rear brake pedal arrived today and I had a bit of free time. Boy those tires are bad.
Image
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:37 pm

The project has been moved to the back burner for a couple of weeks. Antique car repairs reared its ugly head and needs to get done before the end of the month. Three things; have a leaking expansion plug in the block, electric choke isn’t choking, and the generator is pushing up daisies. New expansion plugs will be here next week, have a spare choke but it looks like the wiring has gone south, and replacing the generator with a 6v positive ground Delco alternator. That last one isn’t as easy as it sounds. Needs all new brackets to make it fit.

And my fab guy is on vacation anyway.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:24 pm

Not a lot happening. The DeSoto has been a major pain in the butt. I expected a couple of days, it’s been almost three weeks.

That said, the clutch cable for the bike arrived Saturday. That only took a month. And I was able to source a replacement oil pressure sensor for the Lambordini. That took some doing as this wasn’t a standard Lambordini set up. Something my people did. Turned out the high pressure sensor for many VAG engines was the direct replacement. $6 + shipping.
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

cheesy
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: The Jatalian

Post by cheesy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:32 pm

My former fab guy came by today to look at the frame. He looked at it for about thirty seconds and said, “Yeah, no problem. I’ll have something, probably by the end of the week. It’ll be long enough so you can cut to fit and weld into place.”
Mike
2004 Lombardini 15LD315 looking for a steed
1979 Honda CX500
1977 VeloSolex 4600 V3
1973 VeloSolex 3800
2007 Ural Gear Up

"I don't even care about my problems, why should I care about yours?"-A quote on a favorite t-shirt

pietenpol2002
I luv the smell of Diesel...
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Goshen, IN USA

Re: The Jatalian

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:29 pm

Gotta love the fab guys. Can't wait to see what he produces.
Ron
Goshen, IN USA

Post Reply